Thread: VS Cam Build.

Well i finally fixed and sold my grey gtp now it is time for the VS cam build to go on my 40th NA. I Will be doing a L67 swap but wanted to know what it is that i need to even run the L67 as far as i know this is my list.

Radiator
harness or plug adapter from zzp or make my own.
pcm which i have
add performance shift to it

I think that is it as far as the swap goes now the cam Install.

Vs Cam Duh..- check
90 Yellow Springs - check
New single timing chain - Check
Tensioner - Check
Ls1 retainers
42 injectors

Now as far as i know that is all and what i need for the cam install is the retainers and injectors. My question here is are manley retainers and LS1 retainers the same?

Next question what trans parts do i need to hold up more then enough max i am hopping to get is 320-350whp?

Do i really need the 7/8th chain setup?
4340 input shaft?
Harden 4th?
Shift kit do any good?

Next i have slp Headers and was wondering is there any harm by wrapping them with header wrap?

Last question should i leave the heads as they are or get the valves freshened up and do some slight home port work on them? If so how difficult is it to do porting on them is it a delicate process?


Some pics engine is all stock and has 100k on it





Thanks in advance for the help.

Let me offer my personal experiences.

1. Awesome move on a cam swap. However, before you go installing it, are you dead set on the VS cam? I don't intend to soud like a negative nancy, but the vs cam doesn't offer much of a gain compared to the XP or NIC cam. I mean, if you already have it, and can't return or don't want to sell it and get something else, I respect that.

2. Ls6 springs are fine, but same thing. If you already bought them, keep them. I not I suggest the crow 105's or L76 springs. They're not progressive like LS6's and it'll be less stress on your timing chain/valvetrain.

3. Double roller isn't really needed for a vs or xp cam. Xp guys usually bump the idle a wee bit just to keep the little increase in idle abuse to the chain down. Obviously I'd buy a new gm chain for peice of mind. You could buy a double roller if you reallllly wanted to spend the extra coin, but if you can't have a machine shop match the chamfer of the stock crank gear to the double roller, don't bother getting it. It'll cause more problems then it's worth not doing it. Even if you did the poor excuse mods like double timing cover gaskets and machined cover, it's not fixing the cause of the rubbing problem.

4. As for trans mods. If you need one, do it right the first time and get a TEP trans with all the goodies. I doubt you'll need most of it at this power level, but I'm sure you won't stop here, and you'll have more mods in the future. Yeah it sucks to drop 2-3k on a trans, but when built and driven right you should have years of trouble free driving.

5. I hate to come off as a douche again, but you won't be close to 300whp with those mods. Maybe 250-260whp with some other mods, so personally a stock trans with a cooler and a shift kit might actually work for you if it's in good shape.

Oh and leave the SLP headers unwrapped. They're awesome all by themselves, however if it's the original flex, get it replaced with a double walled flex BEFORE you put them in the car. Learn from my mistake, they leak and it sucks to hear it driving down the road.

Oh and you don't need the bigger injectors, keep the stockers. Also, if you're keeping the VS cam, keep te stock retainers unless you want to buy titanium ones. Ls retainers are for xp cams. I think NIC cams can use stockers as well but I'm not sure, I already had ls retainers on my car so I kept them for my NIC build.

Originally Posted by Wotgtp

Let me offer my personal experiences.

1. Awesome move on a cam swap. However, before you go installing it, are you dead set on the VS cam? I don't intend to soud like a negative nancy, but the vs cam doesn't offer much of a gain compared to the XP or NIC cam. I mean, if you already have it, and can't return or don't want to sell it and get something else, I respect that.

2. Ls6 springs are fine, but same thing. If you already bought them, keep them. I not I suggest the crow 105's or L76 springs. They're not progressive like LS6's and it'll be less stress on your timing chain/valvetrain.

3. Double roller isn't really needed for a vs or xp cam. Xp guys usually bump the idle a wee bit just to keep the little increase in idle abuse to the chain down. Obviously I'd buy a new gm chain for peice of mind. You could buy a double roller if you reallllly wanted to spend the extra coin, but if you can't have a machine shop match the chamfer of the stock crank gear to the double roller, don't bother getting it. It'll cause more problems then it's worth not doing it. Even if you did the poor excuse mods like double timing cover gaskets and machined cover, it's not fixing the cause of the rubbing problem.

4. As for trans mods. If you need one, do it right the first time and get a TEP trans with all the goodies. I doubt you'll need most of it at this power level, but I'm sure you won't stop here, and you'll have more mods in the future. Yeah it sucks to drop 2-3k on a trans, but when built and driven right you should have years of trouble free driving.

5. I hate to come off as a douche again, but you won't be close to 300whp with those mods. Maybe 250-260whp with some other mods, so personally a stock trans with a cooler and a shift kit might actually work for you if it's in good shape.

Thanks for the reply prefer the honest experience talk then some wrong advice so thanks lol

1. set on the VS due to the fact i will be having two different builds and this will be my dd. i have some decent power adders i have a bunch of parts already doubled for the other build as well. So definetly set on the vs not looking for crazy power just enough to smoke some good muscle cars mustangs srt8s and such. my other project is the xpz build which i also have already.

2. reason why i went with these is well dont see people having problems with it and really dont want to put 105's and a double roller if it isnt needed. I have the mods for the xpz so i have a double roller but the reason why i went with the vs is to not spend much and change much and get some decent power.

3. have a guy running 105's on a single chain put i think it was 10k or 20k and chewed up the tensioner.

4. The only time i will spend that much for a trans is only for the XPZ which is what is holding me back the trans i have everything else ready to go its just the trans and i need some power now which is why i went VS for now till i have funs for the trans. So not looking to spend past say 1k for a trans to hold up to a vs build which shouldnt be much.

5. i should mention what will go with it so here it is, Gen V with 3.4 zzp mps drop pulleys safely, Havent decided on fuel e85 or 91oct yet, Ported Lim Might do ic which i have just not sure yet, N* which i also have but idk if it is worth it with the vs cam, Full exhaust SLP Headers, Borla catback, PRJ Wires, ZZP Fuel rails, Still undecided on the port work for the heads. I also have Slp 1.8 Rockers but idk if its worth or possible to do not good with that stuff. I have a couple of other things but that is the major stuff.

Originally Posted by Wotgtp

Oh and leave the SLP headers unwrapped. They're awesome all by themselves, however if it's the original flex, get it replaced with a double walled flex BEFORE you put them in the car. Learn from my mistake, they leak and it sucks to hear it driving down the road.

Oh and you don't need the bigger injectors, keep the stockers. Also, if you're keeping the VS cam, keep te stock retainers unless you want to buy titanium ones. Ls retainers are for xp cams. I think NIC cams can use stockers as well but I'm not sure, I already had ls retainers on my car so I kept them for my NIC build.

Kinda Have to wrap the headers due to they arent legal here in cali will be passing them as Togs and cant do that with the SLP Logo showing lol

I thought i needed 42's with a vs cam?
ZZP says that you need Ls retainers with the 90s on their website for the right install height.

Ed you need the ls retainers for ls springs.

Originally Posted by MoarkatsINmuhtrailer

Ed you need the ls retainers for ls springs.

do you happen to know if the ls retainers are the same thing as manley retainers?
and if 42's injectors are or aren't needed?

No they are not.

You wont need injectors till below a 3.4 pulley.

And if you want to make 350 wheel on a vs it is very much possible.

You are gonna want an intercooler though and a pretty small pulley.

Originally Posted by MoarkatsINmuhtrailer

No they are not.

You wont need injectors till below a 3.4 pulley.

And if you want to make 350 wheel on a vs it is very much possible.

You are gonna want an intercooler though and a pretty small pulley.

well ill be happy with anything above 300whp the closer to 320-350whp the better.

so should i buy 42's or leave stockers on? dont want to pay twice for tuning because of injectors later in the future when i decide to pulley drop.

I would just do them now

Lol if I were in your position, I'd just go balls deep in the XPZ build, and with the coin saved from not doing the vs build, get a good trans. However, i still understand and respect what you're doing. Granted I've seen mostly turbo guys with the XPZ cam, but they still report good street manners and about stock, or slightly less mpg.(I have the NIC cam with the more aggressive idle and I still consider it good street manners).

From what others have said on the board, even with the higher pressure, the 105's are easier on the chain than 90's. However I had a 1.9 HS rockers with ls6 springs for about 100k and when I did the NIC swap, the stock chain had little wear considering the rockers and springs choice. If you're looking for 240-250whp on 91, the VS cam *should* work considering if you'll have a 3.4 setup and other supporting mods. E85 could be a good game changer for you, and could easily gain you some power over the other cams instead of going with a VS. however I have no personal experience with it, so I'd ask other members about it who actually use it.

In a nutshell, I'd suggest doing this for cost effectiveness, an going along with what you're looking for.

Vs cam
L76 springs(about the same, if not cheaper than ls6 springs, and offer less wear on the chain)
Ls retainers
stock lifters *should* be good if they only have 100k, the vs cam isn't that aggressive and as long as the stock lifters are in good shape you could keep them. But FYI ls7 lifters are awesome and cost about $100.
Ported blower outlet
slp headers
180 tstat
104 AL plugs, or any other same heat range plugs
E85 would be sweet
and whatever pulley you can safely run with 16-18 degrees of total advance wot timing. However all cars are different and may like more or less timing.
Get the bigger injectors. You can tune them with 250whp, and this way you'll be a tune away from running e85, instead of doing that and swapping injectors.

Trans. Rock the stocker for as long as you can with a good shift kit and a cooler. The next cost effective way would be a "basic" TK trans. Which goes for about $1300 shipped, no core. (that's about what I paid). I'm not a fan of junkyard transmissions, unless you know for sure it's a low mileage one. Anything more than 50k I'd pass on. I just don't want to take the risk, but that's just me.

Silly me, I forgot about needing the retainers for ls springs. I was just thinking purely about lift. Thanks for pointing that out moarkats.

Originally Posted by MoarkatsINmuhtrailer

I would just do them now

think that is best here.

Originally Posted by Wotgtp

Lol if I were in your position, I'd just go balls deep in the XPZ build, and with the coin saved from not doing the vs build, get a good trans. However, i still understand and respect what you're doing. Granted I've seen mostly turbo guys with the XPZ cam, but they still report good street manners and about stock, or slightly less mpg.(I have the NIC cam with the more aggressive idle and I still consider it good street manners).

From what others have said on the board, even with the higher pressure, the 105's are easier on the chain than 90's. However I had a 1.9 HS rockers with ls6 springs for about 100k and when I did the NIC swap, the stock chain had little wear considering the rockers and springs choice. If you're looking for 240-250whp on 91, the VS cam *should* work considering if you'll have a 3.4 setup and other supporting mods. E85 could be a good game changer for you, and could easily gain you some power over the other cams instead of going with a VS. however I have no personal experience with it, so I'd ask other members about it who actually use it.

In a nutshell, I'd suggest doing this for cost effectiveness, an going along with what you're looking for.

Vs cam
L76 springs(about the same, if not cheaper than ls6 springs, and offer less wear on the chain)
Stock retainers
stock lifters *should* be good if they only have 100k, the vs cam isn't that aggressive and as long as the stock lifters are in good shape you could keep them. But FYI ls7 lifters are awesome and cost about $100.
Ported blower outlet
slp headers
180 tstat
104 AL plugs, or any other same heat range plugs
E85 would be sweet
and whatever pulley you can safely run with 16-18 degrees of total advance wot timing. However all cars are different and may like more or less timing.

Trans. Rock the stocker for as long as you can with a good shift kit and a cooler. The next cost effective way would be a "basic" TK trans. Which goes for about $1300 shipped, no core. (that's about what I paid). I'm not a fan of junkyard transmissions, unless you know for sure it's a low mileage one. Anything more than 50k I'd pass on. I just don't want to take the risk, but that's just me.

Haha i wish man but i plan on keeping my 40th and the GTX with the agressive build and go balls out and E85 on it as well as a dry shot of nos which i have waiting for it lol

i would love and have been debating for mods on e 85 but it is my dd and there isnt enough stations for when i make a trip idc about mileage as long as there is stations which i dont have. which sucks balls.

I have LS7 lifters but for the XPZ lol
Everything you listed is in the plan of what i originaly was going to put on so we are good on that.
Should i go with the L76 springs or keep my Yellow 90s?
was planning on doing a shift kit and hardened 4th and of course fluids should that be enough for it?

Thanks for the Help by the way

from what i see here in this link, headers are allowed as long as you have the emissions hooked up they should be fine. and did see slp headers for GM trucks in the list as approved. they seem to allow just about anything you want as long as it passes a smog test and the obd2 scan.


Database: Aftermarket Parts Database of Executive Orders

sencond link did not work, got to the top link here, then go to the second drop down search box, look for "Exhaust System / Exhaust Modification" then search.

E85 is awesome, but if there's not enought stations near you it sucks. Sounds like your XPZ build will be awesome, nice list going.

If you already have 90's, just keep them. If not, I'd go to a dealership and get L76 springs.

For the trans, some people have trashed their modded stocker with a 3.4 setup. Others have gone tens of thousands of miles trouble free. It really depends on driving habits. Personally I think the shift kit, cooler and fresh fluid with a new filter should be good enough. Other than that I'd just get a rebuilt one if you think you need it.

You're welcome, and good luck.

L76 springs and retainers are awesome for small cams. I shift mine at 6200, rev limit at 6300 and they never float or give me any grief. All for under $70 right from the dealer. As stated though if you already have something else that will work just as good stick with it. As for injectors if you have any thoughts about going e85 I wouldn't waste my time with 42's. you will need a tune anyway so why not jump right to 60's for an extra $20-40 and be done with it.

Originally Posted by scottydoggs

from what i see here in this link, headers are allowed as long as you have the emissions hooked up they should be fine. and did see slp headers for GM trucks in the list as approved. they seem to allow just about anything you want as long as it passes a smog test and the obd2 scan.


Database: Aftermarket Parts Database of Executive Orders

sencond link did not work, got to the top link here, then go to the second drop down search box, look for "Exhaust System / Exhaust Modification" then search.

Aorry for the short reply n my phone **** sucks.
Havent gotten a chance to read the link but here in Cali for any modification you have to have a Carb approved sticker intake, headers or any modification it can pass emission but they want to see the sticker did smog two months ago didn't pass because of my intake had to take it off and out stocker back on.

Originally Posted by Wotgtp

E85 is awesome, but if there's not enought stations near you it sucks. Sounds like your XPZ build will be awesome, nice list going.

If you already have 90's, just keep them. If not, I'd go to a dealership and get L76 springs.

For the trans, some people have trashed their modded stocker with a 3.4 setup. Others have gone tens of thousands of miles trouble free. It really depends on driving habits. Personally I think the shift kit, cooler and fresh fluid with a new filter should be good enough. Other than that I'd just get a rebuilt one if you think you need it.

You're welcome, and good luck.

On my phone so sorry if it's short but as far as my xpz goes I have everything besides a Trans is4 injectors rails everything lol

For the Trans no 4th at least? I ask because I hear how they go out

you guys got it tough over there. i did see the intake section there, it allowed open cone k/n filters with air box and tube. its a long list and i did not see a gp listed, but that dont mean its not there, or at least a GM year to year deal listed.

i was surprised to see they allow programmers like bullydog and such as well. as long as its proven to be with in the sniffer i guess they let happen.