starting to lose my mind

[350D50]

Hey all...I have a 97 GTP, it had been parked for a couple weeks, i started it up and noticed it sounded almost like a miss, ran fine and would sputter a bit seldomly...figured it would either clear up or need plugs and wires...so im driving up the road and it starts sputtering and stalls, fires right back up keep on driving, park at the store where i shut it off and it hasnt started since..cranks over like crazy, i have tons of fuel pressure, ive been searching online all week and have already tried to jump the resistor for the fuel pump, i just put a new crank sensor in hoping that would be it...nope, oh ya i have only had spark once all week i only checked #6 the time i had spark, i checked every coil today and nothing..im leaning towards a module..i also used a voltmeter and had identical readings between + and - on battery and + on battery to many spots on the engine, i was thinking ground...its driving me insane i dont wanna dump money into this car that is supposed to be sold! hopin for some help!

[350D50]

i forgot to mention, im not sure if its supposed to not move or bounce but my tach doesnt move whatsoever and my fuel guage is pegged at 3/4 with only about 1/4 tank..no CEL, and it doesnt even try to fire

[ASCStinger]

crankshaft position sensor perhaps?

[Liquifire]

Have you checked the ICM yet? Ignition control Module if you didnt already know...

[Midgethockey]

I had the same problem with my intrepid. Turned over no problem but would not start. Changed the camshaft sensor and it fired right up.
Good Luck

[t24moore]

Crankshaft Position Sensor like stated above.

[BillBoost37]

Easiest thing to do when you don't have a scanner is check the basics. You know the plugs and wires can't be bad because they got you there. The injectors must be good as well. The running poorly on the way there was a symptom of fuel/air/tune up issues. Let's rule tune up out since it got there.

Fuel and air ... Try unplugging the maf to default to table data instead of sensor data. If it run poorly when you do this, give it a little time running and it'll learn the parameters better. Drive home and order a maf.

[Liquifire]

crankshaft position sensor perhaps?

he already said in the opening that he has replaced this.

[350D50]

thanks for your help but if your not gonna pay attention to what i said plz dont offer, im going to have the module tested today i tried unplugging the MAF last night and nothing...is it accurate that if my CPS goes it would take out the CAM sensor with it? is there only the 3 things that make spark (ICM, CPS,and CAM)? and can i test the CAM sensor? with a voltmeter is there supposed to be an AC output?

[BillBoost37]

The car is not reliant on the cam sensor and I've never heard or seen a crank sensor take out a cam sensor. If a cam sensor is left unplugged the FSM states you have a 1 in 6 chance of the car starting. My personal experience is more like 1 in 10 chance the car won't start.

I'd check the ICM/crank/cam sensor wiring as best as you can considering it's location. Also pull the crank connector back off (tough but possible with the HB still on the motor) and check to ensure none of the pins pulled back. Recently have seen this in a couple posts. Should be pcm, icm, crank to get spark. I've also seen a loose ICM connector cause this type of issue.

[350D50]

the cam sensor wiring was hard as a rock so i untaped it and it looked fine as far as i could see, i checked the plug before i installed the crank sensor and it looked fine as well im going to do continuity tests between the icm connector and both crank and cam sensors now, i had a voltmeter on between the B+ and the bolts holding the coils down and didnt get the 12.44 my battery has, it was like 8. something but when i checked the plate they were screwed into it was 12.44 so i figure was just the rusted heads...at first because of the way it died i thought it was fuel related but after researching a bit i figured CPS immediately....****ing frustrating

[350D50]

oh ya i forgot to ask what is my tach supposed to do while cranking over is it supposed to bounce or not? it doesnt move but i thought the tach was fed from strictly the crank sensor? brand new sensor and it still doesnt move..the tach wire runs through the icm?

[BillBoost37]

Sorry..I don't have the tach info here. It would seem that you have no spark though. You've actually tested to ensure taht the injectors are pulsing and you have fuel into the cylinders right? And also checked for spark?

[350D50]

ya sry i have no spark..tons of fuel at schrader, i put a peanut bulb in an injector wire and got nothing when cranking. I have no idea why or if its even related but when i turn my key on my fuel pump relays go insane, my plastic line goes nuts, clicking on and of..ive tried many pairs of relays in both f/pump and the spd cntrl..i just got a ICM from a buddy to try, i took the plug off there it LOOKS fine, so does the cam and crank sensor plugs..there is 2 red wires in the ICM connector that test as grounds?

[350D50]

ok so i just changed the ICM from a running car, i have continuity from the crank sensor plug into the icm and out of the icm to the pcm, what i did just find is that many fuses have no power, ignition off/on/crank dont matter no power. many of these fuses are IGN fuses, my fuel pump relay goes bezerk when the keys on, keeps shutting on and off...Before i got my car someone has installed a push button under the dash to bypass w/e messes up and causes the key to not return to off. Almost every wire going into the ICM lit up a test light as a ground...man i wish it was just a fuel pump lol

[350D50]

so after reading a bit about the ignition lock problem i assume this button someone installed is to duplicate what the solenoid in the console does? i figured quick fix for this is to just ziptie the button down, anyone hear of installing a push button to be able to turn the key back? listening to my relays going nuts without touching the ignition and not having power to a significant amount of fuses that have to do with the IGN is starting to make me think that my problem might be electrical and in the column or with this button? wow this is driving me nuts

[350D50]

could anyone tell me what pcm will work does it have to be a 97 or can it be 97-03 or w/e year is the same? i assume it has to be from a s/c3800...any ideas why half my fuses are dead like my inector fuse should have power i think?

[Liquifire]

I think the pcms are as follows:
97-only
98-02 same
03 only

That is the way the vendors break them down when you order them. I know the 03 has different tranny settings than the rest. Not sure on what the difference is exactly between the 97 and the newer versions, but they are not a direct swap as far as the settings go.

[350D50]

lol of course mine is the only specific year...**** sakes...

[350D50]

so it turns out it was my ignition switch i figured that was the only reason my fuses werent getting powered up so i started "hotwiring" the car using the key to crank and a jumper wire to ign power and it started right up it wasnt until i powered it up that i realized none of my dash lights had been on or my DRL lol so now it has a fancy toggle switch