PE nuts

[Sabrewings]

I've got my trims down pretty good. Actually kinda happy about that. Cells 2 and 4 are right where they should be, which is good for my trip I'm going on next week. What has me concerned is PE mode.

For some reason, its totally FUBAR'd. I thought it was my tune being off, and that maybe my PE was a little off, but PE just sucks. With my VE tuning file, I have PE set to enable at 100% TPS so its pretty much disabled. I got only a flash here and there of a half a degree of knock all the way up to 55% TPS.

Once I got done tuning, I set PE back to enable at 30% and as soon as PE enables I get like 6-10* of knock and it stays.

My O2s when that happened were around 920-ish I think (wasn't recording at first). I stopped, looked at the Base_PE_AF table and my AFR at the time this was happeneing was in the low 11s... Probably way too damn rich. So, I put the AFR to 13 for all the areas I would need it and went again. Same thing, except now my O2s are around 898. Too lean, I guess.

The car ran great without PE, but I can't get it right. Where should my O2s be? And anything else I can be adjusting? As it is right now, PE is way off.

Remember, I have a L36, not an L67. Attached are my PE tables...

[webracin]

Base_PE_A/F.......everything below C30, change to 14.2

I have attached the PE_RPM_vs_Time_A/F table as well....It looks to me like you are pulling WAY to much fuel when going WOT...give these settings a try and let me know how it works...

webracin

[Sabrewings]

I'll try it out tonight. Thanks!

[TDCRacing]

I'd have to agree. I am pretty sure that your o2's need to be higher than 920's. So good luck with this and let us know how everything turns out.

[Sabrewings]

Nothing is working. What the f**k! It can't be this hard to tune the O2s for a mostly stock L36. I mean, I've got my intake/exhaust set up right except for a Plog and that's it.

I got my O2s up to 940-ish and it was knocking worse than ever. I'm on friggin' 93 octane gas! The car is great until I hit PE mode then its like it spazzes out and knocks as much as 7-8* constantly. I've seen commanded AFR all the way down to 10.9:1 and no help. I thought, hey, maybe it's TOO rich. I read that 12.5:1 should be good and I should see O2s in the 850 range but the car refuses to go that lean. No matter what I set to, it seems to want to put my AFR in the 11-12:1 range.

I guess I'm just fed up. I just spent a couple hours working on nothing but my O2s trying every setting I could think of (probably flashed it like a dozen times) and came away no better than I started.

I'm stuck.

Attached is a scan... go to line 145 or so.

Does ANYONE have experience tuning the N/A 3800? I know its a different ball game than the L67...

[Sabrewings]

I had an epiphany a few minutes ago. I'm going to go chill with some friends, but I've prepped a new file and I'll try it in a few hours. I'll let you know if it works...

[webracin]

If that does not work, let me know....I might be able to get you in the ballpark.

Your spark advance does not look right to me, but I have not tuned on a GT in a long time, and you will get knock if your runing to rich.

webracin

[Sabrewings]

Well, my idea failed. I thought if I reset my entire PE folder back to stock and go from there it might be better and give me a starting point. Fail. Here's the scan... Scroll down to the knock and that's where I was in PE. Several runs.

06292008_221731 from sabrewings -- Scan Depot dot net

I think tomorrow I'm going to load my factory file as is and see if there's a difference. I feel like I fubar'd something somewhere and its killing me. If that doesn't put her back to how she was acting a month ago, then there is obviously a mechanical issue that needs to be resolved (though, I doubt that). I remember back when I first got my Interceptor gauge (before my Powrtuner) that on a WOT run it would knock at first but drop to zero, so PE was working properly just needed refinement.

If that does put it back to how she was, then I'll go tweak by tweak recreating my tune and fix whatever is messed up.

[TDCRacing]

well someone who knows more about the n/a than me look at his o2's and tell us if they are normal. there in the 800's when he's getting the kr.I think thats lean but im not to sure being it's with the n/a instead of the l67 sc'ed. But just by looking at it you look lean.As said before as soon as your trims lock in at zero you get knock. try adding to the maf table from the p/t-wot section up.


again sorry if im not making any sense but im unfimilar to your situation and am trying to relate my tuning experience to the problem your having in hopes of helping you someway.

[Sabrewings]

well someone who knows more about the n/a than me look at his o2's and tell us if they are normal. there in the 800's when he's getting the kr.I think thats lean but im not to sure being it's with the n/a instead of the l67 sc'ed. But just by looking at it you look lean.As said before as soon as your trims lock in at zero you get knock. try adding to the maf table from the p/t-wot section up.

I wish it was as easy as being lean. I've had my O2s up to 940+ and it only seemed to get worse.

I'm gonna hold off and see what my try with a completely stock file does tomorrow. Though, more advice is appreciate because once I determine that something in the tune is wrong, I have to be able to fix it.

Here's my car in detail...

2004 L36 (Series II/III hybrid)
67k miles
3.05 gearing
Stock TB
Stock MAF
WizAired
Factory plugs/wires (will soon become AL605s and PRJ wires)
Stock manifolds
Stock injectors
ZZP 2.5" DP
No rear O2 sensor (codes deleted)
Mandrel 2.5" custom catback

I guess that's as much info as I can provide. The car doesn't act weird like it's a mechanical issue. Just as soon as PE kicks in it knocks crazy. That leads me to believe its dumping too much fuel because if I was running lean then I'd be knocking before PE, too. Make sense?

[TDCRacing]

Just as soon as PE kicks in it knocks crazy. That leads me to believe its dumping too much fuel because if I was running lean then I'd be knocking before PE, too. Make sense?

what about running rich before pe ( hence the negative fuel trims) and then running lean as soon as pe kicks in? Thats how i was seeing it. I see that your trims lock in at zero during pe but you could still be lean...i have done a maf tune with trims locking in at 0 also during pe and i can adjust the o2's by the maf table to lean richen the motor with the trims still remaining at 0...just a thought though...i guess i was hoping that during all of my crazy ideas you it might spark the ah-ha! moment in your head lol

[TDCRacing]

what about putting the stock ve table back and just adjusting by the maf table? tried that? it seems like you may have messed something up in your ve table since it seems like that is the only thing that was changed.

[Sabrewings]

what about running rich before pe ( hence the negative fuel trims) and then running lean as soon as pe kicks in? Thats how i was seeing it.

True, I hadn't thought of it that way.

i guess i was hoping that during all of my crazy ideas you it might spark the ah-ha! moment in your head lol

Keep sparking...

what about putting the stock ve table back and just adjusting by the maf table? tried that? it seems like you may have messed something up in your ve table since it seems like that is the only thing that was changed.

Well, I was knocking a bit before the VE tune, too. I had thought about this though and that's kinda what I want to test by going back to the stock file. If I can get rid of this problem with that (or, at least make it better) then I'll add stuff back one by one and testing. My VE table would be one of the last things to be added.

[TDCRacing]

True, I hadn't thought of it that way.



Keep sparking...



Well, I was knocking a bit before the VE tune, too. I had thought about this though and that's kinda what I want to test by going back to the stock file. If I can get rid of this problem with that (or, at least make it better) then I'll add stuff back one by one and testing. My VE table would be one of the last things to be added.

yeah i havent messed with the ve table on mine...just the maf...most say all the ve table is used for is in the event of a maf failure...but thats only a matter of opinion...they did some tests on hpt and on some cars it worked and some it dident....what they did was 0 out the ve table and unplug that maf...some cars died and some didnt...i think they then figured out that some cars used the ve table and some didnt...idk

[webracin]

Email me your bin file and I will see if I can find anything that is out of the ordinary.

webracin

webracin@cox.net

[Sabrewings]

E-mail sent.

[webracin]

Try changing all your Torque MGMT back to stock. Your settings are to low and Torque MGMT will manifest itself as KR. I am still going thru the file, but all your other fuel settings look good.

webracin

PS...still going thru the file, and I will let you know what else I find.

[Sabrewings]

I didn't think I'd changed the TM that much. Just what was in your guide under the "Webracin' tune" section.

I'm going to go out in a few hours to test the stock file, but first I'll load a file with all stock TM settings to see what happens. Will let you know.

[webracin]

Keep in mind the webracin tune is for a GTP, not a N/A, so it will tend to make yours pig rich.

I think your problem is in the TM section, but we will see. If that does not work, I think you have a good plan by going back to stock and seeing what we have there then go step by step so see which setting is throwing things off.

webracin

[Sabrewings]

A friend at the Impala forums is big into tuning, but he has a 3400. We both have 22# injectors stock, and he glanced over my scan. He said my IPWs at 3k RPM are the same as his at 5k RPM, so I'm running pig rich he thinks.