Quick trans identification question.

[sampuppy1]

How do I tell if I have a 65 or an 80e in my 00 GP GT? I'm assuming the GTP and GXP came with the 80 as its likely the stronger brother to the 65 which is likely my trans. I wanna be sure before I start ordering parts to fix it.

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[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

All 98-08 grand prixs came with a 4T65e. They came with different gearing and different parts in certain years or are "HD" models, but the grand prix itself never got the 4T80e.

Only the bonneville GXP from 2004-2005 got the 4T80e with the northstar motor. Yes others cars got it aswell, but mainly all caddy's and few olds aurora cars with the northstar.

[sampuppy1]

Well that's good to know it was an easy answer. I have pics of some parts I need identified. Anyone here good with transmissions that I could pm some pics? Im pretty mechanically inclined but this is the first time I've ever gotten into trans work so this stuff is all new to me.

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[sampuppy1]

Screw it. Here's the stuff that is clearly broke and one questionable splined shaft.

overdrive band. The retainer that the pin thing pushes on broke off. I'm assuming this is why it only worked if you manually selected the forward gears. The other two bands will be replaced as well since one has a couple good grooves in it and the other one has a spot with a very thin layer of friction material left.

this looks like a bushing of some sort. It also acts as a bearing and the plastic part that's shattered is the means of aligning it

these splined look like they have had something go through them. These gouges have no burrs, do not affect how the shaft sits in its hole and from the fiddling around I've done with it it doesn't seem to affect the engagement of the shaft in any way. They're uniform in depth and length. Every spline. All the way around. Makes me second guess thinking maybe it was intended to be this way?

Sorry I'm a total transmission noob. I've ripped apart, built, swapped, and diagnosed countless engine, electrical, and other parts but I've never dealt with a transmission before. I don't know the lingo, how they work, or what to look for honestly. I'm just winging it for now and seeing how well I do. Kind of intimidating but I have confidence in my capabilities.

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[BrandonHall10]

overdrive band. The retainer that the pin thing pushes on broke off. I'm assuming this is why it only worked if you manually selected the forward gears

Yup. That's the forward band. Pretty common.

this looks like a bushing of some sort. It also acts as a bearing and the plastic part that's shattered is the means of aligning it

That's a lube dam. They get brittle over time. Under $2 at a trans parts shop.

these splined look like they have had something go through them. These gouges have no burrs, do not affect how the shaft sits in its hole and from the fiddling around I've done with it it doesn't seem to affect the engagement of the shaft in any way. They're uniform in depth and length. Every spline. All the way around. Makes me second guess thinking maybe it was intended to be this way?

That's normal. I assumed it had something to do with lubrication, but that's just a guess.

[sampuppy1]

There is a bushing/bearing that partially covers that section of splined so I was thinking it had something to do with fluid delivery to said bearing/bushing.


I've heard the forward band is a common thing. Since I'm doing one I might as well do the other two......

Good to know the lube dam is a simple and cheap part.


Any other trouble areas I should look at while I've got it all apart?

Any suggestions as to where I should get parts maybe online? ZZP is local to me and I know they have made quite a name for themselves but I'm not sure if they carry trans parts.

Also the valvebody is the only thing I could see being a struggle for me. The little ball valves. A few fell out while I was cautiously (obviously not cautious enough haha) taking it apart. I did recover all of them from the drain pan and I believe I found all their proper locations in both sides of the valve body. But just for good measure is there some sort of valvebody map that would point out in a diagram where these little bastards go? I'm picking up a small tub of asemblee lube. Figure a small dab would keep them in place while I mate the two halves of the valve body assembly together and it'll break down upon the first drive correct?

The plastic insert in between the two halves of the valve body.... Get a new one? Seems like its a gasket of sorts.

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[BrandonHall10]

Any other trouble areas I should look at while I've got it all apart?

A couple.*

Any suggestions as to where I should get parts maybe online? ZZP is local to me and I know they have made quite a name for themselves but I'm not sure if they carry trans parts.

Find a Transtar store. There's one in Grandville. Otherwise, just get from wherever. It's all the same stuff. I wouldn't get anything from ZZP though. They just upcharge for stock stuff you can get anywhere. (Speaking only about trans stuff. Not throwing stones)

I would highly recommend doing the full Trans-Go kit, since you have it all blown apart.

*Get your hands on an ATSG manual and give it a read through. This will show you any areas of concern. As well as check ball location and torque specs for everything. It will save you a ton of frustration.

[sampuppy1]

Shift kit? Is it necessary for a daily/beater. I doubt I'll be adding anything to this car aside from tint (hate fishbowl status) and maybe a radio since I have a nice spare pioneer sitting in the office. Making this thing fast is the last thing I need. I got a 15 over in an e350 cube van bahahaba. A fast car would ruin my life. Also it has 230k on the odo.

I'll go troll through eBay for a manual. Would a Haynes have the same information or is atsg specific for transmissions (my acronym gears turning came up with automatic transmission starter guide....)

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[BrandonHall10]

Shift kit is a bit of a misnomer. It's more of a "kind of freshen up and old tired trans and also address some known issues" kit. But that wouldn't fit on the box.

Google 4t65e ATSG manual. "Automatic Transmission Service Group" There has to be a PDF floating around somewhere. Worlds apart from a haynes manual.

Might be worth looking through this also:
http://www.grandprixforums.net/threa...t65e-Completed

[sampuppy1]

Good info. I'll do that in the morning.

I've heard trans-go name dropped quite a bit over my years. I known they make some decent stuff. I'm in the learning stages but I can absorb quite a bit of information in a short time. The inner workings of how gears turn and such just plain baffles me. Could be the ADHD and my analytical nature combining and causing me to over think and try to reverse engineer the stuff Inn my head and it doesn't Make any sense which is part of the reason why I've never dove into a transmission. The other reason being I've never encountered a transmission issue until now so I haven't had an opportunity to get inside one. And for the money I'll have into this I really can pass up a chance to get hands on and try my hand at making it work. I'll bet the manual covers all the inner workings and how it comes apart and goes back together? I'm planning to thoroughly clean all the parts just due to the fact that they'll be sitting around a garage that isn't very clean for at least a week.

The trans-go kit can be found at the transtar store? What does the full kit include?

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[BrandonHall10]

You can get it at a trans shop, but the cheapest place is going to be eBay. Search "4t65e Trans-go" it will give you a description of everything it includes.

Most guys only use the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator springs and spacers, and even if you're doing a full rebuild you still only use that plus the 3-4 accumulator spring. Only when you're trying freshen one up, do you use everything in the kit.

Edit:
If you are going to make the trip to a trans shop, it would also be worth grabbing a couple (maybe 3) thicker 2nd steels. The little cost and effort to put them in are well worth the reward.

Not sure how much you're looking to spend, or how long you want this thing to last, but it might also be worth replacing, at the very least, the PCS. Get the updated Borg Warner one if you do. (I have a source for that as well, if you're interested)

[sampuppy1]

Where are the 2nd steels in this stack?

I'll eBay that kit today as well as the manual.

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[sampuppy1]

And what is this pcs?

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[sampuppy1]

Awwwwww shiiiit

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[BrandonHall10]

You won't regret getting the manual. You get a full rebuild kit?

[sampuppy1]

Just some 2nd steels, all three bands, complete overhaul seal kit, solid lower engine mount, coupe lube dams that I am not 100% sure are correct..., trans-go shift kit, pcs, torque Convertor lock up solenoid, filter, a free tub of trans assembly lube, a big ass catalog of parts with full breakdowns, pictures, locations, and part numbers so I can identify any other things I may need if I find them. This trans shows signs of being worked on. The t/c is not factory. The gears and shafts all look to be in very good shape. The friction plates (correct?) all look like they don't have a ton of wear. Now that I've got the manual I'm going to crack open more of the internals to check all the other clutch assemblies for wear. I'm actually getting a little more excited about this. I spent a good 45 minutes at transtar browsing the manual and most of it looks to make a fair amount of sense to me so I'm thinking I may actually be able to do this confidently. Read twice, perform task, check, double check, triple check.

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[sampuppy1]

What should I use to clean out the trans housing and other parts? I have a big stash of non chlorinated brake cleaner but I'm not so sure that's a viable option. No access to a parts washer otherwise I'd go that route no question.

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[BrandonHall10]

I use that foaming engine cleaner and a pressure washer and brush for the case and other aluminum parts, because it's non corrosive. Finish the valve body and channel plate with brake clean.

Super Clean (purple jug) from Wal-Mart for the steel components.

[sampuppy1]

I have foaming engine cleaner. No pressure washer. I think I'll just wipe down the case, clean the parts with brake cleaner and make sure I drop some fluid on everything before reassembly.

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[sampuppy1]

The lack of a power washer also makes me want to avoid using sudsy and detergent type cleaners. Any films left behind from them could break down the new fluid.

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