Accerolation=Vibration. Inner Tie Rod Replacement? Help/Tips/Pics/How To?

**Mr D** · 06-13-2012

03 GTP 127K mi.

Been working on the front end, thought I had it, but was wrong, again. Vibration on acceloration is turning me into a crazed, angry maniac. I feel it under moderate to hard acceloration, then smoothes out when reaches top end. Speed does not matter, happens coming off stop & "passing" at freeway speeds. Coasts straight and smooth.

Everytime I replace a part, driving/handling improves, but it is still not "right". In the last couple monthes I have New; KYB Excell G struts in HTM c/o, NAPA axles, DEA solid M&T mounts w/ ZZP 1/2" spacers, Raybestos camber bolts, Dorman sway bar, endlinks, & LCAs, Timken lt hub & Moog rt hub. I rotated wheels, took it to Justtires & had them balanced & alignment done.

The only things left are the tie rods. (I think ?) I understand outter tie rod replacement. I checked them by lifting car, place hands @ 9&3 oclock on wheel, and check for movement/play. Everything is snug. But I've read inner tie rod can cause vibration. I dont really understand why steering link (thats how I think of it) would result in vibration only on acceloration and have never dealt w/ inner tie rod, & don't know how to use or where to get special tool referenced in GM service manual.

I would really appreciate tips, tricks, pics, how to, for inner tie rod.

And, is there something else I should be looking at, worried about, replacing?

Thanks!

**Rico** · 06-13-2012

Could be:

Torque converter
Differential
Engine could be missing

Have you noticed anything else wrong with the car like bad gas mileage or DTC's

**Mr D** · 06-13-2012

Hey Rico. I use plx kiwi w/ android torque, everything scans fine-no codes, engine is running as good as I could ask, & just passed emission test last week.

I am worried about tranny? I'll try to research.

**Rico** · 06-13-2012

Does the car vibrate if you hold the car with the brake in drive...you know like if your trying to do a burn-out?
No vibration will rule out the torque converter and flexplate. This would tell you the problem is down stream of the TC.

If you do feel the vibration I would suspect engine, torque converter or flexplate.

**Mr D** · 06-13-2012

Rico, do you mean, 1 foot on brake & 1 foot on gas @ same time, then put car in gear & press gas while holding brake?

I haven't done that 15yrs--LOL.

Front is slightly lowered, solid m&t mounts w/ spacers, so I feel slight vibration at idle when not moving, which I understand is normal for those mods. The vibration that's eating my soul feels almost like a wobble, seems to be on front right side when accelorating.

Thanks for the tip! I'll see if I can get a ticket doing burnouts after work.

**Scottydoggs** · 06-13-2012

outer tie rods are easy, take the wheel off, break the lock nut loose. then take the nut off the tie rod, and hit the knuckle by the tire rod shaft and whack it a few times hard, it will pop off.

the inner you need a tool, free rental deal at pep boys or what ever you have by you. you need to take the boot off the inner rod, then slide the tool over the rod and remove it.

looks like this, all them clips you see slide inside the tool and are for the nut on the inner tie rod, test fit the new one, it should be the same size then remove the old one. you also need a 1/2 drive ratchet or breaker bar on the end of the tool.

**Rico** · 06-13-2012

Originally Posted by Mr D

Rico, do you mean, 1 foot on brake & 1 foot on gas @ same time, then put car in gear & press gas while holding brake?

I haven't done that 15yrs--LOL.

Front is slightly lowered, solid m&t mounts w/ spacers, so I feel slight vibration at idle when not moving, which I understand is normal for those mods. The vibration that's eating my soul feels almost like a wobble, seems to be on front right side when accelorating.

Thanks for the tip! I'll see if I can get a ticket doing burnouts after work.

The idea is to not spin the wheels but get the TC up so speed with a load on it.

BTW
I think if it were the inner tie rod making that much vibration/wobble you should feel it just by grabbing the front wheel and trying to turn it.
You'll feel a bump or pop noise.

**dsmuts** · 06-13-2012

LOL the tires won't spin if your holding the brake pedal. It's fail wheel drive.

**Mr D** · 06-15-2012

I spent some time driving w/ my eye on torque, rpm, & load, hoping to see pattern. Could not really see anything definative. I held brake, put it in gear & rev'd up to 3k + rpm. I could feel vibration slightly, gradually increase in brake pedal. But it did not feel bad... Don't know how it 'should' feel? Should it have no increase in vibration @ all?

& I still have slight knock, kaplunk, sometimes when engaging gear & slow turns.

Think I'm going to order inner & outer tie rods & see if that helps.

Thanks for the help!

**Rico** · 06-15-2012

There should be some vibration 'cause your loading up the trans with a bunch of hydraulic pressure. The question is, does the vibration sound the same or very close to the vibration when the car is moving? That "kaplunk" noise when you engage may suggest that the differential is getting sloppy. The differential will cause a whine more than a wobble though.

Do you notice any vibration while sitting still and turning the wheels? Could the rack be causing this? Replacing the inner tie rods couldn't hurt.

I'm still thinking something is binding the axles. You lifted the motor and trans up 1/2" with the ZZP spacers?
Have you tried restoring the stock ride height?

**Scottydoggs** · 06-15-2012

holding the brake and giving it gas, and the car standing still, 3,000 rpm is a lot for a stock converter. maybe your trans is slipping?

**Mr D** · 06-16-2012

Try to follow up quickly. Bought the car about 11 monthes ago, about 2 monthes after I bought it, it started to "slip-bang" into gear--it woukld rev up, then drop real hard into gear, and it was getting worse fast--I almost cried. Put in a zzp shift kit, and it smoothed out greatly, now only drops into gear hard rarely, but not nearly as bad as it was getting before the shift kit. From the tiny I know about auto-trans, if I took it to a shop and they said, torque converter and/or differential, I would believe them.

Yes, I have tried it w/ restored stock height, and have m&t mnt spacers. feels the same. And feels like it is in right side. even rotated tires to make sure--feels like a tire is out of balance, except it only vibrates on acceloration.

So, I heard enough times "inner tie rod" that I figured I would change inner and outer, hell, I have changed everything else, at this point, figured it would nt hurt.

But I'M STUCK AND NEED HELP. PLEASE.

Bought duralast inner and outer tie rods, rented removal tool and test fitted as scottydoggs suggested--autozone tried to rent a tool that didn't fit, so ended up at advanceauto--rented OEM 27185, the 1-7/16" part fits duralast tie rod.

Got outter tie rod and boot off, & tool

**Mr D** · 06-16-2012

sorry,
got outter tie rod and boot off and tool DOES NOT FIT INNER TIE ROD ON CAR. inner tie rod on car has white plastic sleeve, and flattened part behind ball joint that tool fits over is much thinner than replacement. I'M STUCK.

Called pepboys, and they rent tool i already have.

Scottydoggs, if you're out there, or anyone, can you give me manuf & part # for tool in picture posted?

or if anyone has run into same issue, tool they used to get what I assume is OE inner tie rod off.

Again, greatly appreciated!

**99PontiacGTP** · 06-16-2012

It's probably your CV shaft. My drivers side is bad and it will cause a woble/vibration under acceleration. Its not so bad as to click when turning(the only real way to tell when one is bad) but is does cause a vibration. May be something to look into.

**Scottydoggs** · 06-16-2012

the tool i rented was like the one i posted above, those little wrench parts fit into the tube, and fit the inner tie rod. iirc the new inner was not a real nut, 2 flat sides..i think, its been a while since i had it in my hand.

**Mr D** · 06-16-2012

Thanks 99, but put napa axles on couple of weeks ago. Definately needed them, wheel slip/tire spin used to only happen on lt side, now they both squawk equally.

well, that is when it has wheels on it. need to get this inner tie rod off so I can get it put back together and back on the road....

**Mr D** · 06-16-2012

thanks for getting back scottydoggs. now that I have it apart, I understand how the tool works. The tool I rented fits perfectly on replacement tie rod, but it is different from one you posted, it has interchangable "half-sockets" that fit over entire ball joint and flats behind joint--the socket isnt deep enough and flats on socket are too thick, where the one in your pic has thin interchangable pieces that fit only flats...

the oreily's near me rents same oEM 27185 tool i have, but sells a lisle tool sim to what you posted for $100. sad....

**dsmuts** · 06-16-2012

I have an inner tie rod tools with 3 difference size ends on it that works on everything I've used it on. I rented the one from autozone the first time I did it and It was the right tool for the job. 2 piece tool.

**dsmuts** · 06-16-2012

Maybe post a pic of what your having problems with.

**Mr D** · 06-16-2012

Thanks all, for reading and contributing. I got it. User error. I'm only guy out there dumb enough not to know what a shock dampener is and that it simply slides back off the ball joint.

I will try to post a couple pics and follow up when I have alignment done again, maybe someone else could benefit my our time lost.

BTW, outer tie rod ball joint just slipped out of the knuckle as I loosened nut, no fork, pry bars, hammers, needed--however, I could not get nut off past nylon tip, had 5/16" (i think) wrench on bottom until I strip it, a bolt splitter had it off in 5 min. The outter ball joint was very lose, and the inner did not move smoothly.

Lastly for the night, I'm wasn't man enough to get the inner tie rod inner boot clamp/strap on. So I used 2 zip ties. Before I do the other side, how much trouble am I asking for with that "easy way out/short cut"?

Thanks again!