Should my valvetrain be ok for an S1X cam?

**darkhorizon** · 11-21-2011

S1x needs #130 intake valve springs, and whatever you want to toss on the exhaust side.

Modded retainers and short valve seals are a must... I usually suggesting milling the guides down if you have the heads off for any reason.

S1x and XP cams push ALOT more lift than advertized on stock rockers.

**blueguy** · 11-21-2011

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

S1x needs #130 intake valve springs, and whatever you want to toss on the exhaust side.

Modded retainers and short valve seals are a must... I usually suggesting milling the guides down if you have the heads off for any reason.

S1x and XP cams push ALOT more lift than advertized on stock rockers.

130's are not needed.

105's are plenty...also, running a stock chain/dampner is fine as well on 105's or 90's.

IMO, I'd get a new chain/dampner...
Crow 105's/matching retainers...no need to mill the guides...get Comp re-useable rocker bolts while your in there, new VC gaskets...aluminum LIM gaskets, etc. The Manley Titanium retainers are superlight compared to the stock or suggested retainers for the 105's. That'll help lighten up the valvetrain and let the car rev a lot freer. I noticed them for sure on my cam build on the blue car. I was running a much larger cam, with 130's on both intake/exhaust, milled the guides .100"...coming from an XP/LS6 Springs/Retainers...and putting in the XP/LS6's from a set of 1.84 Rollers with stock springs/shift points...it was for sure fun.

**crbquist** · 11-21-2011

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

130's are not needed.

105's are plenty...also, running a stock chain/dampner is fine as well on 105's or 90's.

IMO, I'd get a new chain/dampner...
Crow 105's/matching retainers...no need to mill the guides...get Comp re-useable rocker bolts while your in there, new VC gaskets...aluminum LIM gaskets, etc. The Manley Titanium retainers are superlight compared to the stock or suggested retainers for the 105's. That'll help lighten up the valvetrain and let the car rev a lot freer. I noticed them for sure on my cam build on the blue car. I was running a much larger cam, with 130's on both intake/exhaust, milled the guides .100"...coming from an XP/LS6 Springs/Retainers...and putting in the XP/LS6's from a set of 1.84 Rollers with stock springs/shift points...it was for sure fun.

I have 105 crow springs with viton valve seals as of now. I was looking into the titanium retainers along with 1.6 yella terra rollers. That should really lighten up the valve train. A few people have told me to just reuse my stock rockers, but I think the rollers would be better, especially with a cam. Also going to run a double roller chain and be done with it. That way I don't have to worry about the dampaner down the road and I will be all set incase I ever decide to upgrade my heads and run stiffer springs.

**blueguy** · 11-21-2011

Originally Posted by crbquist

I have 105 crow springs with viton valve seals as of now. I was looking into the titanium retainers along with 1.6 yella terra rollers. That should really lighten up the valve train. A few people have told me to just reuse my stock rockers, but I think the rollers would be better, especially with a cam. Also going to run a double roller chain and be done with it. That way I don't have to worry about the dampaner down the road and I will be all set incase I ever decide to upgrade my heads and run stiffer springs.

Just run a new stock chain/dampner. Trust me. 105's aren't near as harsh as LS6's on the dampner. I only got about 44-45k out of a stock dampner on an XP with the idle set at 750. I'm sure with 105's...with the idle set a little higher it'd be more than fine...the S1X isn't that big of a cam.

**crbquist** · 11-21-2011

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

Just run a new stock chain/dampner. Trust me. 105's aren't near as harsh as LS6's on the dampner. I only got about 44-45k out of a stock dampner on an XP with the idle set at 750. I'm sure with 105's...with the idle set a little higher it'd be more than fine...the S1X isn't that big of a cam.

Yeah but why not just upgrade to the double roller? Like I said that way I will never have to worry about the chain and dampener again. What if down the road I want to get better flowing heads and run 130# springs? Then I would have to tear everything down and swap to a double roller. And even if I keep it as it is, I would have to eventually replace the dampener at some point down the road.

**darkhorizon** · 11-22-2011

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

130's are not needed.

105's are plenty...also, running a stock chain/dampner is fine as well on 105's or 90's.

105s float on s1x and XP cam cars passed 5800rpms or so.. its not the end of the world but you lose quite a bit of power.

I wouldnt trust an LS6 spring lift wise on a xp/s1x. Good chance you will be running into coil bind.

**crbquist** · 11-22-2011

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

105s float on s1x and XP cam cars passed 5800rpms or so.. its not the end of the world but you lose quite a bit of power.

I wouldnt trust an LS6 spring lift wise on a xp/s1x. Good chance you will be running into coil bind.

Where are you getting this info from? I've been told by many people that 105s are just fine. I was taken for a ride just the other day in a buddy's gtp that has an xp and 105s and it would not stop making power even at nearly 6500rpms

**matt5112** · 11-22-2011

Originally Posted by crbquist

I can't see how that's possible. Rollers are easier on the valves then stock rockers. The motor should rev easier with the rollers.

Stock rocker ratio changes at high lift.

Originally Posted by crbquist

Where are you getting this info from? I've been told by many people that 105s are just fine. I was taken for a ride just the other day in a buddy's gtp that has an xp and 105s and it would not stop making power even at nearly 6500rpms

motor's he's measured IIRC.

**blueguy** · 11-22-2011

Originally Posted by matt5112

motor's he's measured IIRC.

With no proof other than heresay.

Plenty of people have ran 105's/LS6's without issues for years.

**darkhorizon** · 11-23-2011

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

With no proof other than heresay.

Plenty of people have ran 105's/LS6's without issues for years.

I dont know a single person that has never had issues related to too much lift and not enough clearance using these parts... Remember everyone breaking valvesprings not to long ago?

There is a thread on CGP right now where zoom and I put all the specifics out there. Its quite obvious stuff and it has not been a secret. Just because people like to do things wrong does not mean that I am automatically retarded for bring this up.

I do typically seem retarded trying to back the things I say up with factual measurements, real world experience, and common sense.

I was taken for a ride just the other day in a buddy's gtp that has an xp and 105s and it would not stop making power even at nearly 6500rpms

Floating valves on a M90 is not nearly as voilent as it is on a turbo setup, but it is happening.... As I said its a small issue and your average ricer is not going to notice 10-20whp missing.. Most everyone with this "setup" can prove valvefloat when their boost starts to spike up right around 5800 rpms. People without valve floating issues do not have that boost rise.

In a turbo car valve float does not raise boost, but it does decrease turbo speed and airflow (as the turbo is regulated by the pressure ratio of the motor).