Was that on pump gas or e85?Originally Posted by frosty
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10-21-2013
Was that on pump gas or e85?
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10-21-2013
What is MBT? And so basically you are implying that my car right now with a 3.0 pulley will NOT make any more power on E85 by advancing the timing from the stock 15* which is what it is set to now. That just seems silly to me.
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10-21-2013
A couple of years ago when I was running E85, I thought it was fantastic. I was running a L26 lower end on a 2.8, never had knock. I kept my AFR in the 12.2 range and never advanced timing passed 22*. The power was pretty amazing just by playing with the timing alone. The only two reasons I don't run it anymore is the stations that had it don't carry it anymore....and I never had an aftermarket pump that worked worth a crap in the canister. Stock fuel pump though could easily handle 3.2 pulleys, but go any lower and it just couldn't seem to keep up at the top of the RPM's.
It was a fun ride though, hope you enjoy it!
10-21-2013
^^^^^^^^
10-22-2013
I recall tuning it....
Turbo car right? Lets keep on topic here please.That is interesting. When we dyno tuned my old setup, when i switched over to e85, it was only past 22* that the power increase became negligible. That was 17psi.
10-22-2013
That was before he added the turbo...
10-22-2013
What does the snowflake say?
10-22-2013
LOLWhat does the snowflake say?
I 100% trust Nick's tuning abilities
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10-22-2013
Just quoting so you dont think Im backtracking...
You CAN increase timing and see gains from it due to timing creep. SC cars not going 155mph in 3rd gear at the track do not need to worry about it, but at 6200-7000 rpms most cars have some degree of timing loss due to pickup inaccuracy. The amount of this depends on alot of things, and really it just comes down to how much you need to push things at that rpm.
Either way if 1 guy picked up some power some time in some situation then good for him. In the controlled conditions of me running e85 in 10+ different setups over the last 5 years i have been able to put together a very good understanding of what works best for most setups.
10-22-2013
nick, call someone stupid again without backing up your claim. do it.
unlike you, scott has been actually providing some input as to why he thinks the way he does. and honestly, i agree with him more than i agree with you.
but realistically, the argument you have going on is neither here, nor there. this topic was created about the pros and cons about e85 itself, not how to tune appropriately for it and why you think someone is doing it wrong. stay on topic, dorks.
10-22-2013
I had my car tuned by Brian at http://www.dynotunemotorsports.com/ who works with intense. Brian, Myself and John from Intense were all discussing the timing vs. boost debate and according to Brian himself it's a matter of debate and not a black and white issue. Brian has been tuning cars on a dyno for many years. We decided to set mine sort of in the middle at 19* One thing that all of us agreed upon was that e85 is a no brainer fuel for a boosted engine especially in our neck of the woods where e85 is abundant. .
10-22-2013
I want to keep my timing about 19-20* because I've read that over 20* puts a lot of stress on the head gaskets.
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10-22-2013
lets put it this way... you have 4 possible outcomes...
1. If im wrong with low timing, and you leave xx horsepower on the table and your car is crazy slow, and *****es are never gonna want to bang you.
2. If im right, and you run low timing, you dont blow your motor up, and your car is as fast as it can be, and *****es love you.
3. If Im wrong and you run high timing... All the *****es love your horsepower, and your headgaskets/other things will maybe break.
4. If im right and your still run high timing... You are gonna have a bad time, and you are going to have to fix something.
10-22-2013
I'm not here to muddy up Chris' thread, but I will say this. I've tuned more cars on a dyno than anyone in this thread. On e85 and 93 alike, there are gains to be had above 15* of timing.
This is not up for debate.
We'll find out tomorrow what that car will take
10-22-2013
My tuning penis is bigger than your tuning penis....
Im leaning with dark here too. I have nothing but just my car on this but going up from 17 to 22 on the same pulley, I could not tell a bit of difference. Maybe thats a good thing though, and Ill dial it down. Not having a machined snout is probably the only thing saving my stock transmission....
10-22-2013
Like I said I want to keep the timing around 19-20* and no higher. I don't see the point of running so much timing just to maybe pick up 5whp at 6000+++ rpm and be at a higher risk of something to go boom. If I can get away with the timing I want then after winter I'll try dropping a pulley size or two.
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10-23-2013
Well, tuning went very well today. Nick set it to command a mid 11's afr and a timing curve of 16-18* with 18* max timing at shift point. We didn't try to run any more timing just to keep things safe. Gotta few blips of KR here and there but mostly under 1* and it went right back down to 0 which leads me to believe its false KR (my stock trans/mount and ****ty grease shooting axles could be a contributor). Gonna pulley down to a 2.8 in the spring and hope she takes it lol
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Last edited by crbquist; 10-23-2013 at 03:01 PM.
10-23-2013
Good to hear Chris..
I wouldn't say little KR like that is false. There's something that set off the knock sensor. Maybe a weak coil on one tower or a wire arcing slightly through the coating etc. When was the last case learn? Something that just that little bit effects things. If you tossed more timing at it, likely you'd see more knock. Heck..it could be that the torque of the sensor was a smidge off. The torque of the sensor effects the sensitivity.
If you think it's false, turn down the sensitivity in the tune and run as much timing/boost as you'd like w/o seeing any knock. I don't think that would be good long term though.
Most of the blocks I pull knock sensors out of have a build up on top of the sensor. It's tough to tell how that effects the readings, because the only time they usually get pulled is when something broke etc.
10-23-2013
Bill, I didn't know the torque of the knock sensor effects it's sensitivity. Do you know what the correct torque is supposed to be? I just put a tiny bit of rtv near the outer edge and tightened up mine. Not crazy tight but just "tight" by feel you know what I mean.... I too get a blip of KR in the 2nd to 3rd shift right around 100 mph. How do you set the sensitivity in the tune? Is it just a setting in the tune like timing or shift point etc? I saw the same 1 to 2* when I was running 93 gas and a 3.2 pulley. Seems just about everybody on here with a scan gauge see a degree or two of KR. Am I wrong?
10-23-2013
Car pulls strong for the mods.
Can't wait to line him up with Ed's car.
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