Thread: AFR and Timing Tuning (02 Regal GS 223k!!!)

Originally Posted by 91parkave

it really dosent matter, drop in the LQ4 MAF table. then tune from there. thats the purpose of MAF and VE tuning.. with the MAF just tune via either LTFT or STFT till you +-5%


heres that screenshot



ill see what i can get for the LQ4 maf however with it being a common upgrade you should find it readily available possibly on the HPtuners repository

Perfect, much appreciated! Is it best to use what I had as a screen shot via the other member's config or use what is pictured above?

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

If you have problems.... Let me look for the "right" one I have on my laptop.

The problem I have with the one from zzp is that the values are more than doubled almost tripled.

For example at hz rang 10625 my file states 42.381 vs the one from zzp at that same hz is at 292.14

I know I hit that part of the maf and if I am at 11.0 afr for example now that would make it waterfall rich.

That is why I am very confused on what to do if I put that file in my car would run extremely rich.

IMO stick with your current mad table and tune it from there. Regardless you'll end up with a table that works. A couple nice drives and you should be just fine

Originally Posted by 91parkave

IMO stick with your current mad table and tune it from there. Regardless you'll end up with a table that works. A couple nice drives and you should be just fine

Is there somewhere that states what that PID exactly does/means? Also what does the <20 mean? Where have you learned this?

Just set mine up like this atm.

Pid is for fuel trim cell like I mentioned in earlier posts. And i be just learned from reading countless hptuners threads about tuning. Like I said before though click that blue icon and verify your fueltrim cell pid, and maybe someone else can verify fuel trim cell numbers but anything under fuel trim cell 20 is part throttle acceleration which is the data you want. Not decel not evap nothing other than part throttle accel data.so fuel trim cell under 20 works.

Originally Posted by 91parkave

Pid is for fuel trim cell like I mentioned in earlier posts. And i be just learned from reading countless hptuners threads about tuning. Like I said before though click that blue icon and verify your fueltrim cell pid, and maybe someone else can verify fuel trim cell numbers but anything under fuel trim cell 20 is part throttle acceleration which is the data you want. Not decel not evap nothing other than part throttle accel data.so fuel trim cell under 20 works.

What is the blue icon you speak of?

Also when I get the scan how do I go about modifying it?

Just part throttle not in pe for this part? Or do I go wot , city, idle scan?

Attached are your tables LQ4 drop these numbers in and go MAF tune, which is done by either using your wideband or using fuel trims. Itll take a couple iterations but everything will settle in

look in the screen shot i posted with the formula next to filter theres a blue question mark symbol. click on that. it brings up all available PID's.

for your scan pwned.JPG click where i showed you to highlight the table then in your tune open your maf (or VE depending on what your doing) table and right click---paste special---multiply % half.

This will apply your new settings, flash to vehicle reset fuel trims and do it all over again. till your trims look +-3

Originally Posted by 91parkave

look in the screen shot i posted with the formula next to filter theres a blue question mark symbol. click on that. it brings up all available PID's.

for your scan pwned.JPG click where i showed you to highlight the table then in your tune open your maf (or VE depending on what your doing) table and right click---paste special---multiply % half.

This will apply your new settings, flash to vehicle reset fuel trims and do it all over again. till your trims look +-3

Awesome! I think I got it.

Lets take my last scan for example and load it into the histogram filter you stated as seen. Right click copy (averages) blank is where it did not hit 90 counts (in the scan)

Now right click---paste special---multiply % half and it will do its thing (in the tune file)

Is there a certain hz I need this to go up too? Will it not read anything higher than 20% throttle? Do I need to disable PE or be careful not to enter?

for maf tuning you should disable PE,

*correction i found my table that i use for the cell that formula should be (PID.6310)<14

seen here

Fuel Trim Cell Info

0 : Non load (? Coast or idle)1 : Non load 2 : Non load 3 : Non load 4 : Non load 5 : Non load 6 : Load Part throttle 7 : Load Part throttle 8 : Load Part throttle9 : Load Part throttle10 : Load Part throttle11 : Load Part throttle12 : Load Part throttle 13 : Load Part throttle 14 : Load Part throttle 15 : WOT 16 : Idle PARK, A417 : Idle NEUTRAL, A418 : Idle Engine warm?, AC on, M619 : Idle Engine warm?, AC off 20 : Idle Engine Cold?, AC off21 : Non load (? deceleration) 22 : WOT

Non load cells 0-5, 21
Idle 17-20
Part Throttle 6-14
WOT 15, 22


but the other info yes try not to go over 60-70%throttle- disable PE take your scan results paste into tune multiply half percent flash to vehicle reset fuel trims, rince and repeat.

Originally Posted by 91parkave

for maf tuning you should disable PE,

*correction i found my table that i use for the cell that formula should be (PID.6310)<14

seen here

Fuel Trim Cell Info

0 : Non load (? Coast or idle)1 : Non load 2 : Non load 3 : Non load 4 : Non load 5 : Non load 6 : Load Part throttle 7 : Load Part throttle 8 : Load Part throttle9 : Load Part throttle10 : Load Part throttle11 : Load Part throttle12 : Load Part throttle 13 : Load Part throttle 14 : Load Part throttle 15 : WOT 16 : Idle PARK, A417 : Idle NEUTRAL, A418 : Idle Engine warm?, AC on, M619 : Idle Engine warm?, AC off 20 : Idle Engine Cold?, AC off21 : Non load (? deceleration) 22 : WOT

Non load cells 0-5, 21
Idle 17-20
Part Throttle 6-14
WOT 15, 22


but the other info yes try not to go over 60-70%throttle- disable PE take your scan results paste into tune multiply half percent flash to vehicle reset fuel trims, rince and repeat.

I will load a stock lq4 file in and change that <20 to a 14 as stated. I noticed from 9000 hz up the lq4 has lesser numbers than my numbers now (which would make things leaner at wot). I will be adding 2% fuel in that area to be safe. Sound good?

Followed by some scans. But in general isn't up to 7500 hz beneficial enough for a maf tune? or do you go higher?

Once that is all set do I need/really need any fancy PID's or numbers for the wot/afr portion of the maf tune? Or just go about how I did that part before?

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

No, you should never do this.



Maf tuning in this manner gets you nowhere, other than a janky ass maf curve based on whatever your o2 sensor, engine diagnostics, evap status, egr status, air temperature, feels like displaying in the LTFT at the time.



You want to leave the LQ4 file completely stock if at all possible. Changes here are the absolute worst place to make adjustments for "mystery" things being wrong with your tune. The maf sensors almost never have variance from car to car unless you have an obvious air filter issue... which I usually handle in the IFR value, as its the mathmatically easiest way to adjust a logarithmic equation that is the maf curve.



Its not preference or anything.. tuning the maf is just wrong if you have a stock maf sensor. If you have trouble with your commanded afr matching actual afr in the WB, the easiest way to adjust for this error is in PE, as it is not controlled by the narrowband.

That is what I have to work with. If this matters I have no egr or evap.

So I should put the lq4 maf table and don't touch it and then what?

How do I go about getting my trims in check? What histogram would have to made for that? Don't a lot of people modifty the maf table to get the trims in check? That is why they do this, or no?

For afr at wot which PE would I modify if not the maf like others? As seen are stock vs what its at now. Some say do it this way some say do it that way. Especially the tuner guide contradicts some.

You read made sure you smooth your maf after changes.

I would like to know how you approach this type of thing. I am not debating with you.

Yep correct no fancy equations for wot and yes 7500 is plenty.add your 2% and get on with your maf tune!

Originally Posted by 91parkave

Yep correct no fancy equations for wot and yes 7500 is plenty.add your 2% and get on with your maf tune!

I really do appreciate this! Thank you.

I will try this out this weekend hopefully.

Do I need to unplug my 02 to force it into open loop when doing the maf tune? Or is this only needed for the wot portion?

Will some smoothing need to be done as well of the maf? Selection.

No need to unplug your 02 to my knowledge. Unless its a weird "3800ism" that needs to be done . remember open loop does not use fuel trims.(some gm os will allow this but most dont)so you can't tune maf via fueltrims in open loop. Once you hit pe or wot that will freeze trims and run in open loop at the Afr you set.

As for smoothing I don't believe in it. I like us I g the exact numbers the scanner tells me.