DHP help 04 GTP

**nickolaughagus** · 08-09-2016

Hey guys!

I am fresh to tuning, started yesterday, and I have some questions.

I am tuning according to Jerrys Tuning Notebook, but I ran into trouble at the spark abuse settings.

I changed Torque Abuse Spark, but the other tables are missing from the Spark section, and I can't find them anywhere else.

Heres the 3 tables that are mssing, and maybe its because of the fact that I have an 04 PCM, I don't know. :

Traction Spark Retard: TCS Mode 1
- change it to 0 TCS Mode 2
- change it to 0 TCS Mode 3
- change it to 0 TCS Mode 4
- change it to 1 TCS Mode 5
- change it to 2 TCS Mode 6
- change it to 3 TCS Mode 7
- change it to 4

- Traction Extra Spark Retard: change all cells to 0

- Torque Differential Score Retard - change it to 4

I can't find the tables in the Powrtuner software, or tiny tuner 3.

Also, there are some Transmission tables that are missing - the Performance mode Shift times are all missing.

I flashed successfully this morning, and everything went well. I thought I noticed improvements, but then I realized that my fan settings were not changed at all like I did in the software... I'll be doing another partial reflash today to see if it fixes that issue.

I have an 04GTP with a 3 inch catless DP, FWI, fresh plugs and wires, and a 3.6 pulley btw. If anyone has a tuned bin file for these mods thatd be awesome!

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**nickolaughagus** · 08-10-2016

Update:

I reflashed PCM and the fans work fine now. I am running an Overkill Bin off of the Repository, and I am starting a VE tune.

I just learned that I do not have the VE table anywhere. Can anyone help me figure out why my version of Powrtuners is missing data/PIDs?
Am I just missing information?

**Fivefingerdeathpunch** · 08-10-2016

Skip tuning the VE, I never do it on a 3800.

They are a MAF based car, anytime you are deep into the throttle or in any boost it's calculating all fueling based off airflow past the MAF sensor. You also did not change heads or camshaft, so there is no need to mess with it. If you have a big build and wanting to dial in the transients fueling with the VE, then it might help.

I'm not saying jerry's tuning book is outdated or wrong but half the stuff in it is useless for 90% of people modding these cars.

**Scottydoggs** · 08-10-2016

Originally Posted by nickolaughagus

Update:

I reflashed PCM and the fans work fine now. I am running an Overkill Bin off of the Repository, and I am starting a VE tune.

I just learned that I do not have the VE table anywhere. Can anyone help me figure out why my version of Powrtuners is missing data/PIDs?
Am I just missing information?

i sure hope you made sure you you checked what dont belong in your tune, like the timing maf and shift points from the over kill tune. none of them are stock.

and your mod list would likely like the stock wot timing lowered maybe 2 degrees.

**J57ltr** · 08-10-2016

Don't worry about the missing tables, they are not available on 04+. Performance shift is there and it's right next to normal shift lines. Just set both performance shift and normal shift to the same and leave it. Increase line pressure about 20% and shorten the shift times to about .2 second on both tables.

Jeff

Under transmission you will have shift pressure for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Base then the same for performance shift and the last thing is Max shift pressure. So you have 7 items under shift pressure.

Also I wouldn't go putting Overkills tune on your car, there are a lot of things changed that apparently no one knows what they do especially for 04+

**nickolaughagus** · 08-10-2016

Originally Posted by Scottydoggs

i sure hope you made sure you you checked what dont belong in your tune, like the timing maf and shift points from the over kill tune. none of them are stock.

and your mod list would likely like the stock wot timing lowered maybe 2 degrees.

I did run the overkill tune wearily around the block; I felt so much more power than stock, it was amazing. But while watching the knock sensor, I saw some blips during WOT. I then reduced the timing several degrees where the overkill tune differed from stock, and tried it again. It's better now, but I need to properly tune out all of the knock.

The shift points aren't that much different from stock, and they seem fine to me.

Also I left the MAF tables as overkill had them. They are 10% lower than stock. My car runs too rich anyway so I thought it couldn't hurt.

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**Scottydoggs** · 08-10-2016

just make sure the injectors are a stock file if thats what you have. theres 2 bins in there, both are set up for 42 injectors. and both them bins have higher shift points. if you dont have a cam or rockers and springs, best to turn them back closer to stock.

in tranny, in normal, and in perf shift, theres two files for each gear, mph and rpm.

sounds like your on the right path.

**nickolaughagus** · 08-10-2016

Okay thanks for the tips, Scotty, I'll definitely follow through on making those adjustments. I thought I looked through the injector tables but I suppose I missed them.

If I don't need to do VE tuning, what would the next step be? I'm sure the answer is somewhere, but there are so many different people saying different things it seems...

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**Fivefingerdeathpunch** · 08-10-2016

There really isn't a procedure, just do what the car needs.

If your wideband shows fueling is off, adjust it. If you think it can take more timing, do that. If you want to mess with cruise timing, do that. If you want to make it shift smoother or quicker or whatever, do that.

**Scottydoggs** · 08-10-2016

what ive done is set the maf back to stock. set the injectors back to stock, fix the shift points, then let it learn. drive the car for a week, dont bother rushing this, you own the tuner. once your sure the trims are learned and show the same thing for a few days, scan and maf tune it.

leave the timing for now, once you got the maf tuned in where its happy then try raising it and scan for kr. turn it back down if it knocks of course.

if your using eddies just stop, make your own maf adjustments per the scan. you want to scan all the stuff listed in jerrys, but read and edit per your own eyes, you'll get to your goal much faster.

heres a link to a pretty good manual, tuner rev. its all dhp based. some of it sounds like jerrys but it breaks stuff down with pics and directions letting you make your own changes.

skip the ve parts lol

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2sh4vn5u0o..._109h.doc?dl=0

**nickolaughagus** · 08-10-2016

Thanks a lot! Of course I want to rush it though, I just want to make my car fast!

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**Scottydoggs** · 08-10-2016

rushing it does nothing good. be patient. your scan is worthless unless the trims are fully learned. ive seen em change over days of driving. you think they are set cause they stopped going to 0 when wot, but then they change again the next day.

**SgtMarshal** · 08-10-2016

Originally Posted by nickolaughagus

Thanks a lot! Of course I want to rush it though, I just want to make my car fast!

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this is the biggest reason I went with the hp tuners after learning the dhp. fuel trims learn fast, and I'm talking like 10 minutes or less. my fuel trims at wot have been 0 for the last several weeks or longer.

**nickolaughagus** · 08-11-2016

I'm not sure how available this info is on the forum, so I'll share a story. I was flashing my PCM on the fly before work, and I'm pretty sure the connection was interrupted. Nothing would work, PCM wouldn't respond, and I heard clicking in the engine bay. Engine just wouldn't start, but it would go into accessory mode. Anyhow, I was able to close the DHP program after 10 minutes and I went to write the PCM again. It notified me that the last write was interrupted, and asked if I'd like to Recover. So I did, and it worked. I couldn't find that online with my quick searching. And it doesn't try to recover until you close the program and restart.

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**Scottydoggs** · 08-11-2016

been there, but it never said it finished, just it was messed up and to re load a known working bin file. welcome to the world of dhp and its clitchyness.

you 04/05 guys should really be using a off board to flash your pcm.

**nickolaughagus** · 08-11-2016

Originally Posted by Scottydoggs

been there, but it never said it finished, just it was messed up and to re load a known working bin file. welcome to the world of dhp and its clitchyness.

you 04/05 guys should really be using a off board to flash your pcm.

Yeah, it didnt finish for me either. And I tried to rewrite after it happened, but that wouldn't work.

I do need to make an offboard. I'll be hitting up the salvage yard tomorrow

so I can get myself a working 04 PCM harness as well as plenty of other goodies... Maybe I'll even get a transmission cooler off an old Explorer!

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**Scottydoggs** · 08-11-2016

theres a how to here some where for the 04 up off boards, if you can figure out a wire diagram, pretty simple stuff really. the how to only uses the blue plug. i just used mine for the first time, it worked like a champ.

**nickolaughagus** · 08-18-2016

Guys,

I am working on my tune again, and I figured I would upload some recent data for the car.
The link below will take you to an excel sheet I made from log data.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...lFaQVFxNUEtSjg

Based off of this scan, I would say I need to change enrichment modifiers when in PE so that it stays around the mid to high 11's.
Of course I need to pull some timing in some locations, by the way. I will later be uploading my BIN file for you guys to take a peek at as well.

Any other inputs are very welcome, I always appreciate it.

Thanks,
Nick

**Fivefingerdeathpunch** · 08-18-2016

PE is a set it and forget about it table, raping the PE table to bring in fuel or take fuel out isn't how you are suppose to do.

The MAF curve is the end all be all fuel control, it's measuring the amount of airflow coming into the engine and that determines how much fuel needs to be given.

So if you are having too much or too little fuel according to your wideband you adjust the MAF curve to fix it. Adding to the curve lowers the air fuel ratio and taking away will lean the air fuel ratio out.

Very small adjustments is all it takes. Say you are running 11.7 with a commanded AFR of 11.5 you would add 1-2% to the curve above 7,000-7,500hz or so on the MAF curve. Make sure there is no major dips or bumps in the numbers, smooth as needed.

HP Tuners has a graph we view to see the whole curve, I assume DHP can do this aswell.

**nickolaughagus** · 08-18-2016

Originally Posted by Fivefingerdeathpunch

PE is a set it and forget about it table, raping the PE table to bring in fuel or take fuel out isn't how you are suppose to do.

The MAF curve is the end all be all fuel control, it's measuring the amount of airflow coming into the engine and that determines how much fuel needs to be given.

So if you are having too much or too little fuel according to your wideband you adjust the MAF curve to fix it. Adding to the curve lowers the air fuel ratio and taking away will lean the air fuel ratio out.

Very small adjustments is all it takes. Say you are running 11.7 with a commanded AFR of 11.5 you would add 1-2% to the curve above 7,000-7,500hz or so on the MAF curve. Make sure there is no major dips or bumps in the numbers, smooth as needed.

HP Tuners has a graph we view to see the whole curve, I assume DHP can do this aswell.

Thanks,

That all makes perfect sense, and I have been using the table modifier program to get the fuel trims all corrected. Also, I don't have a wideband yet

My issue that I described above was discussing the commanded AFR, not measured. It was commanding an ultra rich mode upon entering PE. It looked like, based on my brief inspection, when the PE kicked it into the 10's, knock would occur. Take a look at the commanded AFR column to see what I am talking about, if you want.

In DHP, I think my main PE vs RPM table is fine, ( it actually is set to go to 12.4 I believe,) but it also goes very rich very quickly per my PE modifier vs Time table. I pulled it from an overkill tune, which probably isn't recommended.

Anyways, what AFR would you recommend when I am in PE?

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