Gee, thanks Madness hadn't thought of that!! Seriously I appreciate your other links, I did try and search and hasn't come across but one of those. Obviously didnt use the right combo of keywords. Gives me a few things to look into, I will investigate the broken wire issues first and so forth, kinda guy who wants things to work as made, but guess if I can't diagnose and fix properly, I have other things to fall back on now. Thanks again.