top swap, started engine, scans give me concern, help?.....

[vikesfan]

sorry for the long read, i just want to make sure all of the info is out there so i can receive the best help i can.

thanks for reading this, i have what i think is a moderate issue that i hope isnt worse. i have posted this on the monte carlo forums and i am hoping to hear back from others since there may be more users here that have experience with these situations...

swap finished last night, changed settings in pcm to lower timing etc etc etc so it doesnt blow up based on the recommendations that "darkhorizon" suggested here... http://www.grandprixforums.net/showthread.php?t=79466

car started right up first try and sounded great, idled great, seems like all should be well, BUUUUTTTT......


i am having some issues and any help or advice or first hand knowledge would be greatly appreciated...

here are my swap details....

2002 monte carlo ss
2008 grand prix n/a 3800 bottom end
1999 Buick Ultra L67 top swap

bin file was a stock 2002 Monte Bin that i modified, however, it was not MY oem bin, it was one that i got off the web from a good source.
l67 map is being used, i am sure this makes a difference.


here are the issues that i have noticed.....





scan tool and dash gauge indicate no signal from ECT sensor. it should be working, but it is from the 08 GP, interchange says the 08 GP and 02 monte ECTs are the same. i did swap it out for old ECT from 02 engine. and didnt make a difference, dash gauge does not move at all, and the tuner indicated a -4*C to 0*C, never goes beyond this range.

both fans stayed on when started no matter what with the first ECT sensor, however, after replacing the ECT, they do not come on until i shut the car off. then they run for the allotted time of 1min .

fuel guage is acting wonky, very very wonky. on the first start, it would fluctuate from 1/8th to 3/8th's when ever i would give a little gas, no crazy revving yet. i shut it off for a min to check things over, then restart, and it continues to do this.



so after changing ect sensor out, i started it up, idled fine, no temp change on the dash or on the scanner, and while putting the upper dogbone back on with a ratchet strap, it bumped the throttle and jumped rpms to about 3k for about 5 seconds until i could get into the car to shut it off. i am confident that nothing was damaged. the tune is rich so i dont damage anything.

since then the car doesnt want to start or idle lower than 1200 rpms and it smells very very rich when it does finally start. there does not appear to be any vacuum leaks either. the nipple under the s/c snout goes to map and fuel press reg, the vacuum tree on the s/c goes to brake booster, bbv (which is bypassed and bottom port is open), and to hvac system. vacuum port on side the side behind the TB goes to the evap. so unless i am missing a vac port, all the vac/boost sources are legit.

i have unhook battery and waited then reconnected and it is still having this issue.

case learn and idle relearn hasnt been done.


i have checked all grounds that i can see and remember messing with and all seems well (near coil pack, on trans bellhousing, under intake box). there doesnt appear to be any damaged wires in the harness.


could the ect and fuel issue be some sort of mapping issue with the bin file i used? (powrtuner)
could the 2 bar map be the issue?

any help is greatly appreciated!

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

Wish I knew more about DHP and the bins they use to help more, only dealt with HPT.

I suppose you could try unplugging the MAP and seeing if it ran better, not sure that would do anything though.


And welcome fellow MN guy.

[vikesfan]

and i forgot to mention, after i unplugged the ECT and MAP, and it was idling perfect, i decided to drive it around the block, seemed to drive fine, no issues, gave it a 30% throttle and it accelerated fine and and 0 KR and the O2 was around 935.

i just want it to run right.

i doubt i had 2 bad ECT sensors considering one came out of the old 3800 that was in my car and was working fine.

i have to believe that there is a ground issue or a broken wire on the ECT part of the harness. there does appear to be a repair on the pigtail clip for the ECT, not the actual pigtail piece, but the main wire harness piece but it looks like a legit fix, solder and heat shrinked.


the map issue, could be 2 things...

1. 2 bar map just not working or not compatible with the L36 bin (for obvious reasons)
2. I may have spliced the wires backwards/in the wrong position on the connector. with the connect clip facing me, and left to right, it goes.... grey, green, pinkish for the wires.

and now since the ECT is unplug, the fans stay on anytime the car is on. which is better than the alternative.


and FFDP, thanks for the welcome. i'm in delano.

[vikesfan]

so i grabbed the connector from the 08 harness that i had and will be tracing back my 02 harness connector to the fault and then rewiring it.

i am also going to swap back to the 1bar 02 and 08 sensors. not sure why i even bothered with the l67 map in the first place since my pcm cant "see" the boost anyway. but in all the top swap threads, not one single time did anyone say anything about using the stock 1bar map, they only mention you "must switch the connector and run the l67 style map.

well, you DO NOT have to do that at all and you dont have to run anything extra. just pull out the L36/L26 map from the upper intake, there is a damn nipple on that thing, just plug it into to your vac/boost source and you are done. you may want to consider a check valve to keep the map from put under boost. not sure if you could source the vac from the tree on top behind the TB or not. but you certainly do not have to use the other style map or solder in the connector.

i will be unsoldering the other connector tomorrow and also fixing the ECT wire and HOPEFULLY, all should be well after that. i hope.

[vikesfan]

i had a hunch after reading more online that someone was going to ask me to unplug the map so i did......


it started MUCH easier and less pig rich but still idled at 1200 rpm


and then out of curiosity, i unplugged the ect sensor and it settled right down to 700'ish rpm



i am getting the following codes...

0107
1107
both are MAP related

0118
1115
both are ect related

0412
0418
AIR pump related, not sure wtf this ones about

0403
0405
both are EGR related and due to me removing the egr and not turning off those DTC's yet

[vikesfan]

just did a jump wire on the ECT and it did nothing on the dash, so based off what i am reading online, there is a ground/5v supply issue happening.

havent found my multimeter recently so cant check for that.

[Pure2sin]

Well. I just so happen to live in Minnesota and have a top swapped 2002 Monte Carlo SS.

Who did your tune? What bin did you use (Number)?

When using a 2 bar MAP you have to change some things in the file otherwise it will read as NA.

Did you change the injector settings for the L67 injectors?

[vikesfan]

i am doing the tuning with my powrtuner and i used OSID 12223492

i am switching back to the 1bar from the L36 and tuning off of MAF Freq and TPS and IFR.

yes, i used the GTP injector settings and the added 2 to the table to give it a bit of extra fuel until i can tune.

i also am using all of the GTP spark tables with a max of 9* at WOT in the top end.

[vikesfan]

correction to my last post, i am using OSID 12223451

[Pure2sin]

Where did you download your bin from?

Edit- I just remembered something. Are you sure you have your VIN correct? Sometimes when you don't have the correct VIN in the file when you upload it will cause some weird issues.

[vikesfan]

well, i get it all fixed up.

switched back to n/a map and n/a connector, and then found a shotty ECT connector repair job,

so i spliced in another connector and actually soldered the wires instead of what the previous owner had done.


while in the process of pulling apart the loom on the harness, i notice that the injector #5 had a splice in its harness. so i dug a little deeper and found that 1 and 3 also had a splice in them.

my conclusion is that the previous owner may have been a mod'er as well, which could explain what the trans was bad when i bought it and maybe even why the engine took a crap on me in less than a year of owning it. it also has residue along the top of the windshield where it seems like there may have been a vinyl banner of sorts across it.

i believe the previous owner may have traded the car in to the dealer with a bad or dying trans but may have pulled the engine to de mod or may have just put in a junk yard engine just to sell it.

i cant say one way or another, but it certainly makes sense.

[Frosty]

If you want to make your life easier you should be running a l67 / l32 2 bar map sensor with a supercharged montie carlo bin file modified for your setup. I did the ssm90 kit from zzp which also trys to run a 1 bar map on a blower setup. I had numerous tuning nightmares and the damn thing had severe drivability issues in the cold. I bought a l32 map sensor because it is plug and play on a l36 harness, Hooked it up to the boost ref port on the lower intake, and then flashed a supercharged grand prix bin file from a 2002 if I remember right. Car immediately had better throttle response and no more drivability issues in the cold. Did the same map sensor / supercharged bin setup on another bonnieville that I helped top swap and it was the same story. At first my buddy went the cheap route and had issues. Switched to a proper setup and it is perfect now. Not to mention you can then read up to 14psi of boost with your scangauge if you have one.

[Pure2sin]

Can't use a supercharged Monte bin because of the trans differences.

Although I do run a L32 MAP with a hex edited hybrid file that was custom made.