Is there something wrong with my ignition coils?

**Pontiac3800** · 08-20-2010

Hi im new to this forum but i guess i can just ask my questions here......... my grand prix its a base "normally aspirated" i think its called and when i start the car the engine starts like attempts to but then it does not work. after several times when i do it and rev the engine as soon as i start it it works. before it also died couple of times and mechanics had no clue what was wrong with it. so me and my brother tryed to mess with the coils because people thought its was that and we believe thats what it is since we take out the plugs like the two from one coil and start the car it worked on all of them but when i took out the first ones and try to have it start it did not work. so i guess the bottom two are messed up. should i buy 3 new coils from my autozone and see if that was the problem or is it something else. really appreciate the help

Again thnx for haveing me here and i just want to say if you guys know my buddies but thanks greeengtp(forget his last 3 #s of his name) for inviting me to this

and i like this site you guys are smart and have really cool cars, any1 want to help me make more friends

**cerick08GP** · 08-20-2010

Well, first off welcome. I think you will find this site will give more than enough opinions to most any question you might have.

Anyway, onward we go. I can tell you beyond a reasonable doubt that your problem is not your coils. I would guess it is a fuel issue or the MAF sensor. This is were knowing the year and mileage of you car would be nice. Hint hint.

The MAF can be tested fairly easily, just unplug it. With the car off disconnect the battery then pull the plug on the MAF. Reconnect the battery and see if it starts/runs “better”. If it does run “better” (because it won’t run perfect with it disconnected) the MAF is probably bad.

Also, have you scanned for any fault codes? AutoZone will actually do this for free.

**Pontiac3800** · 08-20-2010

Thank you and ya whats the MAF lol

have no clue what that is but i believe auotzone has tested that and they said everything is fine. my 07 has 85k miles and still in excellent condition. they did however tell me it can be the ignition coils. so what do you guys think should i buy it?

i also after this problem is dont i want to add more power to my car for it to go faster can i ask that question here or should i go to the performance/ parts section?

Thank you guys for having me here and really appreacite the help

**cerick08GP** · 08-20-2010

Lol

Well, you can change the coils if you like. They are cheap and easy to change out, that’s why people are just guessing to do it. But I’d keep the receipt, there is a 99.997% chance it is something else. For the coils to go bad on a 07 and not throw a code is nearly impossible. More over coils will usually work at the start and degrade as the engine (compartment) heats up. You can test them easy with a multi-meter, I could walk you threw the testing but you need an ohm meter. And if the people telling you to replace them knew anything about wtf they were talking about they would know to test them.

The MAF sensor is just past your air filter, the plug is attached to the side of the air intake tube. The plug should have 5 wires and be oval-ish in shape.

Also, has this problem just popped up or has it been building over time?

**Pontiac3800** · 08-20-2010

well before it had my car not start at all like months ago then its got better when i took the coils out and the module and cleaned it really good(the module) and then put it back in and it worked good just recently it has been not starting and i had to start it many times for it to work and sometimes rev the engine to make it work too. so ya we tested it out a little and the coil i thing is wrong because i had this car for 3 years and i brought it used and it used to be a rental car. before the battery died out because it was croted. so i think its because of that it could have done something to my coils. you think i should try switching it with new ones and see what happens im going to go right now to go buy them before they run out of stock and try them on. you think i should?

Appreciate the help i love this site already

**cerick08GP** · 08-20-2010

Wow, you are just focused on those coils. Listen, if a coil was bad it would throw you a misfire code. And that would give you check engine light, but since you don’t have a light it really can’t be a coil. But hey I have been wrong before. If it makes you feel better go buy ONE coil (~$40) and a cheap multi-meter (~$15). Also, there are a million of these cars finding a coil won’t be hard, don’t sweat it being in stock. You only need one, because for all 3 to be bad would be like winning the lottery two weeks in a row. If you buy the meter get back to me and I’ll take the time to write out the test, but don’t worry it is easy to test them.

If I was there looking at your car this is what I would do. #1 check the fuel pressure at key on, and at idle. #2 Clean the throttle body. Most ppl totally neglect the throttle body maintenance because the car is fuel injected right!?!

What happens is carbon (and crud) build up on the outlet of the throttle causing it to stick. This is also very easy to clean. Just unplug the throttle body cable. Spray in carb cleaner using your finger to hold open the throttle plate. Clean the walls and plate thoroughly, and that will eliminate this area as a potential cause.

**cerick08GP** · 08-20-2010

On a side note I have been thinking about your corroded battery, that is a little odd for a few reasons. First off your car isn’t very old, a battery should last at least five years. So that’s a little odd but not unheard of. Secondly, a little corrosion is not a reason to replace it. Now if the battery had shorted a cell, or something then sure replace it. Thirdly, the PCM controls the alternator, so getting much of any corrosion seems odd to me. My car is an 08, I have never gotten one spot of corrosion on any battery connection. But for you, definitely check all your battery connections and the ground connections on your fender well and tranny.

All this is leading me to a theory and another question. You might have a charging system failure/problem. Here is the thing, normally the PCM tells the alternator how much voltage to put out. And will charge your battery at all engine speeds. But here is the twist, if you alternator isn’t charging you can (for a lack of a better word) override this action by revving your engine. Most alternators will “self excite” at ~2500-3000 RPM and this might be keeping a bad voltage regulator or a bad alternator limping along. What voltage is your DIC showing? Also, if you get the multi-meter you can test the alternator output yourself under the hood. Also, have you done any modifications to your car? Especially any electrical mods like a different radio, adding an amplifier, or HIDs ?

You might want to read this.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/consi...ing-34923.html

**Pontiac3800** · 08-20-2010

Well i do have 6k HIDs but i got that way after i had the battery changed and the HID has not caused any problems at all. plus some of the mechanics have checked everything and say everything else is fine in my car also ya i got the coils all three( its was free for me since my buddy owes me 100 bucks. thats why ive been tempted to get that and hey his money) but ya cleaning out the throttle bottle is something worth doing. can you tell me were its located and how to take it out and what to do and NOT to do. i kind of dont know much but am a fast learner same with my Bro

thank you for helping me out and ya i just did a test run and DUDE i picked up like no other hit 60 in like no time but my car is no rocket but it felt like it

but ya my 2007 GP is all stock and just a has a K&N air filter, ive had this for couple years now

also i have been meaning to ask after i solve this problem you know what i can put in my car to make it go more faster? adding power? no S/C or top swap please ive heard about that lots of times on yahoo but its just TOO EXPENSIVE.

**cerick08GP** · 08-21-2010

Dude I’m not sure what you’re saying. Did you replace all the coils, and now it is running well? If so, I find that hard to believe, unless you maybe had a spark plug wire lose or something.

Cleaning the throttle body is easy. Take a screw driver and remove the air intake tube, the tube just after the air filter. The throttle body is the valve like thing attached to the engine with a big multi-cable going to it. Disconnect your battery, and then unplug this cable. Use your finger to hold open the throttle plate, spray the carb cleaner like I said earlier. Then reverse the steps.

As far as modding your car for more power, well good luck. There isn’t a lot of meaningful mods you can really do on an 07 with out first starting with a PCM replacement, which I’m warning you will be painful experience. One of the only “good” mods you can do without a PCM replacement is put in a HV3 insert from ZZP. It is actually a pretty easy job, but does take like 3 hours.

**Pontiac3800** · 08-21-2010

ya i replaced all 3 and i think i figured it out and know that it is the coil because when i got this car the coils were put on from and old 03 GP and fits good but is about 7 years old. i dont have a clue how it was able to last this long nore know how an 03 can fit in my car and why it did not do damage my engine some how. still i can save your thread right so i can always come back to this and try test things like you told me without having me to ask again over and over which can be getting annoying.

Any way thank you so much you helped me out ALOT, im going to clean my throttle bottle soon but was thinking about getting that ZZperformances or ZZP you said getting that stage 1 throttle bottle that can also increase power to my car is that a good mod for me to do? also they tell me on yahoo back and forth if i should install a Cold Air intake? they say i can make one but have no clue how. they say i can go to my local home depot and make one for like 50-60$. dude thats like 2 times the less price than buying one from the ZZ site. so what else can i install a down pipe what will that do.

plus i would like to tell you how yesterday when i was driving home there was this scion like an 09 one with a spoiler on it and a BIG muffler i raced that thing on the highway and it SUCKED it made all that noise for nothing. so ya i beat that but this other thing i saw was a older acura with a big muffler not that big and sounded like he had some heavy stuff to it and he beat me like when we took off he made lots of noise and sounded like a race car and just slowly went past me and kept going until i hit like 70 then i start to catch up but he stopped. so i know he has to have mods just to beat me that very sad and ya hes way lighter and of coarse a 2 door he beats me. your guys old GTP STOCK can own his ass. but ya you know anything else i can add.

the PCM ive been hearing about is like i think my #1 problem, will a custom tune for somewhere solve that.

THANKS FOR HELPING ME.

**cerick08GP** · 08-21-2010

First off, holding back information like that is one way NOT to make friends here.

It is beyond me why anyone would even mess with the coils on a nearly new car. And then put some old a$$ parts on it. My last GP I had for 6 years and never touched the battery or the coils, what are you doing to your car!?! If in fact you really ever did have a problem, I doubt it is fixed.

As far as moding your car, I already gave my opinion on that but I’ll bite on your new questions.

#1 Your car all ready has an equivalent to a ZZP stage 1 throttle body. And PLEASE stop calling it a bottle all the flipping time!

#2 Putting a new intake on won’t give you measurable (or felt) improvement. Leave it like you have it, stock with the K&N filter.

#3 A new down pipe might give you little something, but IMHO isn’t worth the money. The U-bend restriction on the down pipes of older GPs is already gone on your car.

#4 Not many people with 07s have replaced the PCM, but it has been done. That said, I’m also not aware of one case were it went smoothly. And of course no one seems to want to share this information a whole lot. I was just reading on 3800tech someone did it. But they had to go through the PCM and address a bunch of codes it was throwing, including blocking out un-needed air injection.

Seriously, you haven’t a clue about what you’re even asking. You need to read like every sticky on this forum before even asking more questions.

Oh, and your welcome.

**Pontiac3800** · 08-21-2010

well acutely i did read them all and i think im going to try testing the MAF and then have a scan at auto zone in a couple of days. the cars seems to be running fine BUT you never know when there is something some little things that can be fine today but braek my car another day later. thank you for help me ill get back to you after im done testing it and the scans.

well ill possibly try getting a custom tune but in till then you think i should get a CAI? well people say your car is like you, you need to breath and so does the car so i should put on stuff to have the car breath better like CAI opening up the exhaust and other stuff. also i was thinking about going to a junkyard that i have gone to before but i find old 00-03 Grand prixs over there and possibly older ones. you know if any of the exhaust i take off from them will fit in my car to have bigger pipes and allow more air through my car and possible if i can add a dual muffler to my car? can i use any of there pipes,

also if i wanted to get more info on performance should i ask in the performance / parts section?

also i did not mess with the coils the dealer did when they told me that when i brought it, it was well running and not its like not working good, ill do the testing you told me and get back to you on that, thanks alot for helping me out sorry if i was holding info back i was just trying to see if i dont have to do much to the car that will cost me lots of moeny

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