tuning a sub and stereo

[hondo]

does anyone know how to set up a 12" pioneer sub with a 1000 watt amp i dont want to spend more money. i have pioneer 6x9s and a clarion stereo with sub controls (lpf, volume, frequency) and i want it to have a really deep rumble. its pretty powerful. i just dont know where to put it or what the lpf or whatever has to do with it. >.>

thanks.

[Ice Blue La Crosse]

lpf= low pass fillter..that's is tha setting you need to be on

[I800C0LLECT]

WOW so much fail.

EDIT:
In an effort to appease others...

Low Pass Filter: A filter which attenuates frequencies which are above it's stated "cut off" frequency.




Examples using a system:

Woofer
HPF -- 25hz @ 24db (incorrectly referred to as subsonic filter, also known as infrasonic filter)
LPF -- 125hz @ 12db

Mids
HPF -- 100hz @ 12db
LPF -- 2.4khz @ 12db<------denotes fall off/attenuation

Tweet
HPF -- 2.6khz @ 12db

In the example above, I use the LPF to let my sub play 20hz to 125hz. I have the option of using an Infrasonic filter but I don't...I threw that in as part of the example so you'd understand it's purpose. At the other end of the spectrum my tweeter plays from 20khz to 2.6khz.

Typically when you use an HPF and LPF on the same driver it's referred to as a band pass. Not to be confused with bandpass enclosures. Same idea though since most bandpass enclosures require an infrasonic filter.

Matt will correct me if I made any mistakes

[hondo]

okay thanks for that, where is the best place in the trunk to get the best bass out of it? where should i aim it?

[I800C0LLECT]

I'd say try every position until it sounds the way you like. Don't forget to invert polarity too.

[Toofastgs]

Ok, Wow!

First off any subs need to have the LPF (low pass) Set. This will block all frequencies that are above the hz you set and let every thing below that setting through.
So, if a LP is set to 80hz it will let all hz below 80 go to the speaker and everything above 80 will be blocked.

HPF (high pass) will Block any hz below what you set it too and what is above it pass to the speakers. So you have your HP is set to 80hz it will let all signal above 80hz go to the speaker and any under it will be blocked.


Now to get the best sound for what the sub can do need to know the specs.
A general rule of thumb is to st a LP to 80hz and hp to same or if your speakers can go lower a little lower for a better roll off.
I have my system set for SQ I have my sub lp set for 80hz and my front speakers set to 80hz with a slop of 12db so the roll off aka hand off is smoother.

There is a lot more involved in tuning a system. Like you also want to set your amplifier gain so your are not clipping any signal. The way you want to do this is with a oscilloscope but most people do not have access to do this so next step is using a DMM. And again this is the advanced audio set up and if you want to get the best of what your equipment can do then there are steps you have to take.

[I800C0LLECT]

Ok, Wow!

First off any subs need to have the LPF (low pass) Set. This will block all frequencies that are above the hz you set and let every thing below that setting through.
So, if a LP is set to 80hz it will let all hz below 80 go to the speaker and everything above 80 will be blocked.

HPF (high pass) will Block any hz below what you set it too and what is above it pass to the speakers. So you have your HP is set to 80hz it will let all signal above 80hz go to the speaker and any under it will be blocked.


Now to get the best sound for what the sub can do need to know the specs.
A general rule of thumb is to st a LP to 80hz and hp to same or if your speakers can go lower a little lower for a better roll off.
I have my system set for SQ I have my sub lp set for 80hz and my front speakers set to 80hz with a slop of 12db so the roll off aka hand off is smoother.

There is a lot more involved in tuning a system. Like you also want to set your amplifier gain so your are not clipping any signal. The way you want to do this is with a oscilloscope but most people do not have access to do this so next step is using a DMM. And again this is the advanced audio set up and if you want to get the best of what your equipment can do then there are steps you have to take.

Using a DMM to set your gain isn't necessarily appropriate. Typical music source is recorded below 0db. So using a DMM and tones won't be as accurate as you believe. Every engineer records the music differently too depending on their goals, i.e. equalizing for more bass n' such. If you set with a DMM then you're typically losing out on available power from your amps. I prefer to set by ear with the source volume 3/4 of the way up. But I also have an LED for clipping available to me. I've found that most clipping occurs below 300hz and it's usually rap, hip hop, or related genres.

[Toofastgs]

Using a DMM to set your gain isn't necessarily appropriate. Typical music source is recorded below 0db. So using a DMM and tones won't be as accurate as you believe. Every engineer records the music differently too depending on their goals, i.e. equalizing for more bass n' such. If you set with a DMM then you're typically losing out on available power from your amps. I prefer to set by ear with the source volume 3/4 of the way up. But I also have an LED for clipping available to me. I've found that most clipping occurs below 300hz and it's usually rap, hip hop, or related genres.

WOW so much fail.

First off, Sound engineers if they are worth a damn and care about the sound record every track they produce as flat as possible.

If you set with a DMM then you're typically losing out on available power from your amps.

Power is not everything. And this is one of the biggest things people that do not know about audio systems make. They think the more power the better. In reality you by the amp that match the specs of your speakers. Over powering can kill speakers. Not as much as Distorted power getting to speakers but it can kill speakers. How? simple HEAT. The voice coil was designed for a certain operating temp and over powering creates more heat then what the voice coil was designed for and with out either proper cooling or high quality components it could fail.

I prefer to set by ear with the source volume 3/4 of the way up. But I also have an LED for clipping available to me. I've found that most clipping occurs below 300hz and it's usually rap, hip hop, or related genres.

First off tuning by ear is like calibrating a HDTV to ISF standards with just eye. You can get it in the ballpark but it will never be right aka the way the sound engineer recorded it and intended it to be played back.
Clipping happens at ALL frequency ranges. The lower the hz the more the human hear can not hear it. And it is not just par, hip hop, or related genres. It happens during a musical peak and happens in ALL music even speeches. And that little LED is eye candy just like our boost gauge.

[I800C0LLECT]

WOW so much fail.

Apparently I'm beneath you somehow?

First off, Sound engineers if they are worth a damn and care about the sound record every track they produce as flat as possible.

Key word..."if"...

Let me just add...IF you cared about the english language that wouldn't be so difficult to read.

Power is not everything. And this is one of the biggest things people that do not know about audio systems make.

So are you concluding I know nothing about audio? Every man is worth something. Let me help you by adding a link. Don't get upset Matt

The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers - DIY Mobile Audio

They think the more power the better. In reality you [sic]by the amp that match the specs of your speakers. Over powering can kill speakers. Not as much as Distorted power getting to speakers but it can kill speakers. How? simple HEAT. The voice coil was designed for a certain operating temp and over powering creates more heat then what the voice coil was designed for and with out either proper cooling or high quality components it could fail.

Was that lesson for the op? You should be applying knowledge that benefits the purpose of this thread.

First off tuning by ear is like calibrating a HDTV to ISF standards with just eye. You can get it in the ballpark but it will never be right aka the way the sound engineer recorded it and intended it to be played back.

Did I tell him to tune it by ear? No, I said you can set gains by ear according to distortion. You can use DMM too, but don't pretend it's any more accurate and spread it as gospel.

Clipping happens at ALL frequency ranges. The lower the hz the more the human hear can not hear it. And it is not just par, hip hop, or related genres. It happens during a musical peak and happens in ALL music even speeches. And that little LED is eye candy just like our boost gauge.

So an LED can't, in any way, parallel the method of using a DMM? *cough*

Instead of trying to prove any disposition against yours it would be best to realize we've tried to convey the same ideas and principles. It just happens that your use of semantics did not materialize in the same manner as my own. So we either clear up our discrepancies without the attempt of putting others down or we go our separate ways.

[Toofastgs]

O my!
I think i hit a nerve.

Im not going to start a pissing match(there is a lot of fail in this thread) but one has their way of doing things that includes half assed, while others take their time and do it right. If i look at it this way yes i half assed it too because i did not go out and tune with a oscilloscope, so i did the next best thing(dmm).

Now back to original post i was trying to clear up is that you stated a ""A low pass filter decides what frequency to cut off below 20hz."" which is wrong a Low pass allows all frequencies below a set point, and blocks all above that set point.

And i stand by what i posted a good starting point on settings is to set main speakers main speakers high pass to 80hz and subs low pass to 80hz. Then you can start to fine tune the range knowing the specs of the speakers.

[matt5112]

O my!
I think i hit a nerve.

Im not going to start a pissing match(there is a lot of fail in this thread) but one has their way of doing things that includes half assed, while others take their time and do it right. If i look at it this way yes i half assed it too because i did not go out and tune with a oscilloscope, so i did the next best thing(dmm).

Now back to original post i was trying to clear up is that you stated a ""A low pass filter decides what frequency to cut off below 20hz."" which is wrong a Low pass allows all frequencies below a set point, and blocks all above that set point.

And i stand by what i posted a good starting point on settings is to set main speakers main speakers high pass to 80hz and subs low pass to 80hz. Then you can start to fine tune the range knowing the specs of the speakers.

You my friend are a PHAIL for thinking 80 Hz subwoofer/midbass crossover point= SQ.

This "tuning of the gain" concept is retarded. If all of your gear is designed to operate on the same voltage then set the amp's gains to full and control the levels from the HU. If you don't want to do that, set it to a moderate sound level, and change the gains so the different speakers are equal in sound level so that you get your beloved flat sound. Why do you need an oscilloscope when the home audio guys use an SPL meter... You don't.

See below for more.

To the OP: I've had a great bit of luck placing the sub facing rearward and near the rear lip of the trunk (1-3 inches away). Opening the passthrough in the rear seats also helps once you start pushing larger amounts of air since putting the sub in the trunk is already a stupid idea to begin with.

WOW so much fail.

First off, Sound engineers if they are worth a damn and care about the sound record every track they produce as flat as possible.

LOL have you ever heard a song equalized to be flat? If you want to hear what it sounds like, give me a song name and I'll equalize it for you... You'll cringe as you die from the shrieking sounds of "flatness." Yes, I want you to record "flat sound" and show me what it sounds like. Heres a hint, it'd look like this _________________________ Sort of what a cardiograph shows when someone's heart stops beating.

Do you know how audio engineers actually equalize music? They produce something which sounds good on their studio monitors, switch to another set, and balance between the two, find other sources (I.E. home audio setup etc) and see if it still sounds good there. What is the point of having "flat" sound if it only sounds good on studio monitors in a professionally designed studio? The people who would buy the music have to be able to enjoy it as well.

Power is not everything. And this is one of the biggest things people that do not know about audio systems make. They think the more power the better. In reality you by the amp that match the specs of your speakers. Over powering can kill speakers. Not as much as Distorted power getting to speakers but it can kill speakers. How? simple HEAT. The voice coil was designed for a certain operating temp and over powering creates more heat then what the voice coil was designed for and with out either proper cooling or high quality components it could fail.

And clipping will kill a driver thermally just as fast as over powering for the reason being, square waves do not cool woofers as well as sine waves.

First off tuning by ear is like calibrating a HDTV to ISF standards with just eye. You can get it in the ballpark but it will never be right aka the way the sound engineer recorded it and intended it to be played back.

If you can't hear what a flat neutral speaker sounds like, then you shouldn't be able to review any speakers because you have NO idea what flat frequency response is in the first place.

Clipping happens at ALL frequency ranges. The lower the hz the more the human hear can not hear it. And it is not just par, hip hop, or related genres. It happens during a musical peak and happens in ALL music even speeches. And that little LED is eye candy just like our boost gauge.

Clipping can happen anywhere but mostly happens with bass because even when its clipping, people think the bass sounds good. People think cranking up the bass boost will make their sub's pound harder. But no... it just makes them clip sooner.

That LED isn't actually, it tells you when the amp is clipping which means BACK OFF unless you want to damage your drivers.

So are you concluding I know nothing about audio? Every man is worth something. Let me help you by adding a link. Don't get upset Matt

The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers - DIY Mobile Audio

Only thing I don't like is claiming that it makes a real difference... most people have MUCH bigger issues than that to worry about with their installs. That and most car audio amps are setup for 4 ohm speakers or less meaning you'll get a very small usable amount of power out of your amp. I could show you some cases of extreme power on tap, but you can't do that in a car so its not worth going over. And by that I mean having 3000-6000 watts to power a line array.

And you couldn't possibly piss me off since you're too level headed lol

[hondo]

.....good thing all this is in plain english and i totally understand all the technical terms. haha im so lost. ill just mess with it til it sounds good.

[I800C0LLECT]

The more you read the better it will be explained over time. First thing to learn...20hz to 20,000 herz = frequency range used to reproduce music. That's a good starting point. Amplifier loads, i.e. 4ohm speaker vs. 2 or 8ohm speakers, aren't that important until you start system designing. I will caution, do not ever think that electrical loads are unimportant when dealing with amplifiers.

You already have a basic setup so start learning about frequency response. It's real easy with bass because it's such a dramatic difference every time you change the angle of the subs or move their position. The same thing happens in other frequency ranges too it just may not expose itself as much based on your ability to comprehend why the music sounds the way it might.