Thread: who is running E85?

You have to get sufficient air in with that 40% increase in fuel. Which means you need even MORE airflow mods to be at the same point.

I see what you are trying to say, but this statement is obviously confused.

Did anyone clarify this?

If you are changing the stoichiometric ratio from 14.7:1 to 9:1, then every time you increase the incoming air (which is either the 14.7 or the 9 depending on which fuel you are talking about) then you will need to keep the stoichiometric ratio the same no matter what.
You need to adjust the amount of fuel for the set amount of air that your engine is able to process when switching between the two fuels.
You need more E85 per unit of air than you do gasoline per unit of air, but once you set the fueling, you will not need to adjust the incoming air again.


I completely understand why running E85 is not going to be ideal for everyone, but I really don't understand why so many people have a grudge against anyone that is running E85.
There are good reasons to run E85, and there are good reasons not to.
Can we all agree to disagree and not try to rewrite the laws of chemistry in the process please?

If anyone needs clarification on stoichiometric ratios, please let me know.
I have a degree in chemical engineering from Penn State, and work as a chemist. I am more than glad to help.

Anyways,
How is the E85 switch working out Bio?
Any luck with the alky setup too?

Also, is anyone that is running E85 on an M90 car running a higher compression ratio than the stock L67's 8.5:1?

I'm curious as to how much of a higher compression ratio on an E85 setup will increase the fuel mileage (and hp too), and how high of a compression ratio you can use at what mod levels too. As we all know, the M90 isn't exactly the greatest at processing air efficiently but there are ways to compensate for that.

-Riggs.

Hey Mike, didn't know you were on this board too.
I'm just a newb over here.

-Riggs.

Originally Posted by Mikegotone'02

Wow, first off, indeed thanks for the compliments And no offense guys this is some of the worst info I've seen yet on E85 and conversions...This is why I get frustrated and look like an asshole. There's people commenting on E85 with little knowledge on the subject of E85 and have no idea how to use it on the w-body platform. Explain that to me?

Anyways, I'm not going to decipher this entire thread for right and wrong, i just don't have the time. If anyone has any questions I'm always willing to help. Just email me at hndah8er84@aol.com as I'm usually not over here that often.

Biggriggs, good to see you over here too!

I don't know who you are pointing at when it comes to little knowledge. To defend myself I took what I had and tried to make sense of it. Instead of just saying this is horrible info would you mind replying and correcting what is wrong? I'm sorry if this comes off as rash but what it seems like you're implying within your comment is "you aren't going to waste time on petty fools like us to decipher this thread." You don't come off as an asshole for correcting us, at least not to me you don't, but you do the way you choose your words as if you're so much better than all of us and we should bow at your feet because you hold all knowledge. You had enough time to write up criticism but I wouldn't say it was constructive at all. I've talked to Cornburnin and he's enlightened myself further on the subject but I prefer to hear from more than one person how it works and is setup, especially someone like you. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything with you because I respect you and I've read other threads that you were involved in. I know you are very knowledgable on many subjects relating to the W-Body. I just wish you would take a different approach in your criticism of us.

Also, IndeedSS, I don't know why you said Cornburnin is reluctant to help anyone. He was extremely generous and even willing to send me a tune for my car since we both have HPtuners. Whether he gives bad advice and may be wrong, I don't know and haven't experienced it, but as for his courtesy he was more than happy to help me out and said he would help anyone.

You criticize that this information is so wrong but sometimes that is a good thing to have. It can be just as helpful to know what does not work as it is to know what does work.

Again, please don't take this as an attack, but as contrsuctive criticism. Thanks

honestly from all the reading ive done you pretty much only need bigger injectors and a tune. im going to be doing a whole mess of stuff at once, so itll be fun tuning it...not.

Am I speaking a different language? If the supercharger could provide plenty of airflow, what's the point of headers, rockers/cam, throttle bodies, etc.

Take one supercharged car running on gasoline. Another right next to it is running on E85. To dyno about the same, the E85 car would have to dump ~40% more fuel and pull in ~40% more air to match the gasoline car due to the drastically lower amount of energy contained in E85. If a 40% increase in airflow is easy, excuse me...

There's physics and facts, and then there's what people want to believe. Choose which you want to be in on.

Originally Posted by riceburner

wow sorry i seem to have struck a nerve...the main reason i think he want to convert is the 105 rating and cooler charge...thus reducing kr and allowing more timing advance...

But at the same time you're introducing a weaker fuel, which negates the gains and probably gives you a deficit.

It's not that a nerve was struck, just that I'm tired of saying the same things over and over again. Either no one understands or no one is listening. Let people do it if they want to throw away their money...

Getting enough air doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone. That said, as far as the 3.8, go over to clubgp and search for E85 in the General Section, by author Ron Vogel before a month ago. You will find a lot of first hand information.

I thought this was a very informative read. Converting to E85 (ethanol fuel) - Turbobricks Forums

Originally Posted by Quicklynx

So what I got out of reading that was that Bio248, Sabrewings, and riceburner are all right and maybe a little wrong, but not really.

There were other ways than this but I liked this one the best!

1. the bigger injectors, frpe82 adviced this formula "Calculating useable injector size:
(CURRENT INJECTOR SIZE x 1.39) up to (CURRENT INJECTOR SIZE x 1.6)"

"To get a satisfying injector flow on stock injectors, you will probably have to go to 5.5bar (80psi) or more..." - frpe82

2. an adjustable FPR that flows 40% more than our stock one (people who only want economical gains) or 60% (people that want performance as well), and a mounting bracket

3. An upgraded fuel pump (luckily for me i have 4 or 5 Walbro 255lph lying around from the Talon...)

4. You'll need 30-35" new soft fuel lines, 20-25" vacuum hose, t-junction, hose clamps

As for supporting mods frpe82 didn't say much. I kind of got out of it that if you are only doing it for economical purposes and not modifying your car for a lot more power then you should be fine with the basic setup (40% upgraded flow from the FPR). However, he was running a turbocharged volvo. My judgement on this is that with the basic setup, without high modification to the vehicle, the Supercharged models would be ok. I don't know how the N/A guys would handle.

Did someone mention that the LSx guys were doing this? Maybe they'd be better help for the N/A aspect of proper airflow.

If you have more modifications, headers, more forced induction, etc.., then you should probably run a FPR with a 50-60% higher flow.

NOTE!!!: He mentioned that this can cost a lot of money if our ecu's need reflashed/programmed etc. just to put the setup in and just as much money if we decide we don't want the setup later on down the road.

He explains in great details why HIS ecu didn't need to be reflashed but he did anyway for better fuel mileage.

The article was great and very well wrote. He explains stuff in moderate detail but nothing you can't google to understand further.


I am pretty positive I'm leaning towards this modification. I've already begun to fermentate some chopped corn. (I've been making wine for about a year and a half now so I had the supplies)

I am going to agree with Sabrewings. It is probably a really good idea to get a good amount of supporting airflow mods before converting just to be on the safe side.

Wish me luck!

I wrote this several months ago. This was my perception that I got and without any guidance from anyone else on understanding it. I asked if people could elaborate what I wrote here and even make corrections or add to it. I think I was on the right track, although as I researched further it seems as if most of this is overkill. Would you (Mike, Riggs, anyone else) mind examining this and tell me what it needs, doesn't need, etc.. I plan on using ethanol for performance gains on a daily driver car. Thanks

If some things I wrote are wrong, and I'm sure some things are, I would like it to be corrected so others don't take bad information from my ignorance that results in harm to their vehicle.

from what ive been reading, the swap isnt much more than bigger injectors and a tune. ive already bought 65# injectors, so im gearing up for the change over. with this im going to be putting in a wideband and a happy knob so i can screw with my fueling and timing a little more in depth.

the point of this is to be able to run a lot higher octane at the expense of using more fuel. downsides? you use more fuel. up sides? 105 octane, so increased boost and timing to go with it.

im going to end up letting you guys know what happens..a local guy around here ran a 3.0 on a car with a ported blower and ported exhaust mani's, so im thinking this is going to give me a huge gain.

Let me know how it goes Bio! I'm probably going to get a new FPR, Injectors and maybe some supporting mods. I have a Walbro 255lph High Pressure so might as well install it. Only thing I'm worried about is the right voltage for the pump, I had to re-wire to the pump in the Talon.

Question: What is the size of our stock fuel injectors??? Do they flow 360cc??? I'm thinking 500-600cc would be pretty sufficient for running the ethanol.