Thread: Another open cone vs sealed box debate

Thought I'd start adding real scientific info. Boo me if you want.

for example, the following link graphs air according to density, temperature and for our purposes pressure. Air - Temperature, Pressure and Density

Feel free to analyze and say what you will.

more details on the m90, Page Title

Yep, it's going on a NSX of all things. But it seems he has good data, and I'm sleep deprived (305am here) so it just might not be, lol.

I will have more tomorrow, but maybe this could get us started.

I even saw some things on the Tbird supercoupe forums about adding a water jacket to the s/c case itself to cool temps but im not posting that yet. I haven't really been up to date with Gp development either....

Since reading all these intake post recently, I now realize still maintaining my stock throttle body is a big no no with my current set up and I need to get on that before I get my car retuned. My car is xp'd, s3 heads, mild port on the m90 and other stuff. Ive put 5k miles on it the past 2 years so I dont mind tinkering on it. I was even reading some of gale banks stuff, a S/C will be constipated with a poor intake setup...and I know I have a Corky Bell book somewhere....

Originally Posted by Golgo13

Thought I'd start adding real scientific info. Boo me if you want.

for example, the following link graphs air according to density, temperature and for our purposes pressure. Air - Temperature, Pressure and Density

Feel free to analyze and say what you will.

more details on the m90, Page Title

Yep, it's going on a NSX of all things. But it seems he has good data, and I'm sleep deprived (305am here) so it just might not be, lol.

I will have more tomorrow, but maybe this could get us started.

I even saw some things on the Tbird supercoupe forums about adding a water jacket to the s/c case itself to cool temps but im not posting that yet. I haven't really been up to date with Gp development either....

Since reading all these intake post recently, I now realize still maintaining my stock throttle body is a big no no with my current set up and I need to get on that before I get my car retuned. My car is xp'd, s3 heads, mild port on the m90 and other stuff. Ive put 5k miles on it the past 2 years so I dont mind tinkering on it. I was even reading some of gale banks stuff, a S/C will be constipated with a poor intake setup...and I know I have a Corky Bell book somewhere....

FYI, our blowers do have coolant running through them, but just a small amount on the inlet side (mainly for the throttle body coolant path). many people close these up when modding the blower and LIM.

Originally Posted by Bio248

FYI, our blowers do have coolant running through them, but just a small amount on the inlet side (mainly for the throttle body coolant path). many people close these up when modding the blower and LIM.

I am aware of that, but good info for those that aren't.

but like I said I read something about it on the tbirds and the v6 mustang forums and wanted to look into it further. Might be the same thing...oh well. Won't know til I find the info. I am finding all sorts of engines having m90s swapped on them, alot of information to read and too many bookmarked. I'm not even going to start with the guy on 3rdgen.org whos putting two of them on a tpi 350.

Well I'm disappointed I didn't get it on the dyno. My friends dad called me, (his son is in Iraq), so he's doing all the work on his supercharged prelude. By the time I got over there today it was 2:30pm. He had the supercharger idler brackets completely off and the fuel system all torn down because of a leak he spotted. Dyno was at 6pm an hr away, well we got there at 7pm. I just got home, his prelude was on the dyno for 5 1/2hrs. He runs the full standalone Hondata S300 and the tune that the guy put on the car had it 144hp on a mustang dyno. Mike had to send his original map from his El Paso texas dyno session because obviously the car was putting down more than that being jackson supercharged. Well to make a long story short it ended up at 254hp / 212ftlbs of the torque once he loaded the previous tune back into the S300. Meaning it's making nearly 290 at the crank. The car had tons of heatsoak in it also and was running roughly 205 degrees. Doesn't sound like a lot of hp but the gtp couldn't catch it on the way home. Being a 5sp, weighing 3241lbs, running 9psi and nothing I could do, he kept pulling me. On a dynojet you can add about 7-10% to what a mustang dyno's reading is so really it's more like 260+ to the wheels.

Over the 5+ hrs of talking to the tuner, plus the shop owners I've come to believe they know what the fuk they're talking about. They had a 400hp mazdaspeed6, turbocharged dsm making 500hp, nissan 300z twin turbo making 555hp, a turbocharged regal gs making 420ish hp, a badass old school charger rt making 600+hp, and a mustang making 540hp. Nice shop, clean, great bunch of guys. Charged Mikes dad $300 cash for 5 1/2hrs of tuning.

They were trying to talk me into turboing the gtp, not for me though. The owner of the regal spent a lot of time talking to me about what I should do to my gtp. I told them what I wanted to do and they think I'm heading in the right direction. They said the gains from closing in your open cone on a supercharged car diminish the more you mod it, which I agree totally with. That being said they told me that I'm making way more power than having the stock air box with the intake setup I've got right now, which I totally agree with. All in all I didn't get it on the dyno because it was 1:30am and had hr drive home. The owner of the shop did say they use HP tuners all the time and they could do a custom tune for me with ease and I'd only have to buy 1 credit. They gave my friends dad such a good deal they've earned my business. We will get that long lost info that we're looking for eventually.

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

Sorry you couldn't figure out I wasn't talking about the horribly designed pre 99 box? People get rid of those just to upgrade to the 99+ one...and if you have a '99+ box all you need is a rubber connector from the TB to a piece of PVC pipe...and then a rubber connector to the stock air box...done it before. Not the rocket science you make it out to be.

I'm not a mind reader, how am I supposed to know what year you were talking about. I've got a 98 so why would I care to waste my money on a stock 99 box?

Here's a quote from easy performance.

"The reflectivity coefficients of plastics and rubbers tend to be below 0.06. This means plastics only reflect less than 6% of all the thermal radiation that strikes their surface. This means over 94% of the radiant heat is absorbed by the plastics or rubbers. Consequently, they are undesirable materials when exposed to radiant heat. Maybe not such a good idea to use pvc, abs, or stock intake tubing when trying to keep away radiant heat."

Seems odd everyone is talking up these PLASTIC oem air boxes. Not to mention their pvc/abs plastic tubing they're using to duct the air to the throttle body. It's the worst possible material to use to keep out radiant heat. I got out after my hr drive home to get gas, popped hood and my intake piping and tb coupler were luke warm, not warm, not hot, just barely warm. Seems my open cone isn't sucking in as much hot air as everyone thinks, especially with a cool 54degree night. I'll keep my setup, flow, and intake temps over a stock box anyday!