Burning oil, misfire #2

[Blackbeauty01]

Ok so allow me to apologize ahead of time as I have not really dug into this too far yet, my tools are with my brother. However I just wanted to throw this out there for you guys that are more familiar with this engine.

This is what I do know..

It would appear that oil is escaping into the cooling system.

Cyl #2 has a misfire however it is not dead. The misfire is obvious, scanner says #2 and when I pull the plug for #2 it gets worse.

She is smoking out the tail, not bad enough to call the fire dept but enough to piss off the guy behind you. Oil not coolant.

She does not overheat even with the cooling system contaminated.

I really want to think it could be the LIM gasket, and not rings or valve train or head gasket.

So Ive got oil entering the combustion chamber and the cooling system, this is the only thing that steers me away from the rings and the valve train because the coolant would not come to play with either, however the head/lim gasket could. While I could have 2 problems everything started at once so I am hoping not.

Either way I have admired the GTP for a long time and if I have to get a low mileage drop-out so be it, the only thing that would suck about that is it would take a couple months for me to put that kinda cash away.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[98SilvermistGTP]

How many miles do you have on the car? I noticed it is an 01 GTP. The lower intake manifold gaskets are notorius to go bad, so I would think there is a good chance that is your problem. But, the problem just being on #2 is kinda throwing me off. Maybe the oil is leaking really bad from that area on the LIM gasket or the valve cover and running in there. You could have some oil bypass or a bad head gasket like you said. You could do a compression check to help rule a few things out.

[Blackbeauty01]

How many miles do you have on the car? I noticed it is an 01 GTP. The lower intake manifold gaskets are notorius to go bad, so I would think there is a good chance that is your problem. But, the problem just being on #2 is kinda throwing me off. Maybe the oil is leaking really bad from that area on the LIM gasket or the valve cover and running in there. You could have some oil bypass or a bad head gasket like you said. You could do a compression check to help rule a few things out.

I hear you on the compression check, got my gauge but my brother has the damn adapter!

I'll start by putting some pressure threw the dipstick tube and see if I can hear it escaping threw the TB, either way Ill probably rip her down to the Lim and see what she looks like.

RIght now she's at about 97k.

[Blackbeauty01]

So I didnt get much done today, I had to go help a friend out.

I checked the comp on #2 and it quickly spiked to 150, plug looked ok no sign of oil. Fixed the electrical bugs, the alarm/rke/rs install was a joke.

I think Im going to hold on the tear down till i pull some funding, I dont like the idea of leaving it taken apart for a few days. Gives me some time to do some research and become more familiar with the car.

When I do pull her apart what should I be looking for on the lifters. Im considering just junking them along with the springs while I have her torn down but either way I would like to know. Are there any other things that a newb should watch for while Im at it?

[98SilvermistGTP]

That is good compression on number 2. You could check compression on them all just to be sure. Sounds like an LIM gasket. The gasket is plastic and a big piece of shiit, ufcking rediculous they used something like that. Look around the injectors and in the little spaces on the LIM to see if there is little puddles of coolant and oil mixed together. If you do, the LIM gaskets are bad. You could do some rockers and lifters while you are there, that would be a great time to do them if that is something you are going to do anyway.

[Blackbeauty01]

That is good compression on number 2. You could check compression on them all just to be sure. Sounds like an LIM gasket. The gasket is plastic and a big piece of shiit, ufcking rediculous they used something like that. Look around the injectors and in the little spaces on the LIM to see if there is little puddles of coolant and oil mixed together. If you do, the LIM gaskets are bad. You could do some rockers and lifters while you are there, that would be a great time to do them if that is something you are going to do anyway.

Yeah I know I went a little lazy just checking #2 but Its a pain in the balls runner her off of my R/T because she wont hold a charge. Alt is good but the battery is useless and its under warrenty so untill the Interstate guy pays his visit thats what I got to deal with.

Im not spending a dime were I dont need to cause this rig is probably going to be a decent amount of cash and a heck of a lot of my time. So untill I can at least see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel I want to keep the cash reserve ready for a nightmare lol. I didnt pay cash for her just gave a running high mileage vehicle to the guy who didnt have time to figure her out like im trying.

On the other hand I need to find a full wire diagram for this vehicle. I suspect the underhood relay/fuse panel is out of a N/A GP unless the yard marked it wrong..... I also have a couple stray wires under the dash.

The one Im most interested in the BL/GR wire I found behind the radio with the end stripped connected to nothing that runs down the drivers side floor. The only interior electronics giving me a hassle is the radio that only turns on at random then functions fine along with the onstar and the trac controll button does not seem to work.

With any luck the turds at my local GM dealer were fired and they have some decent parts guys there now otherwise Its a 1HR drive to the next dealer.

I dont suppose theres a FSM in PDF format floating around is there?

[Blackbeauty01]

Well Im confident that the PCM is just a little confused. #2 is no longer throwing a code it moved to #4, prolly should be throwing a code for random but whatever.

I pulled the Lim up today and the gasket for the supercharger looked like absolute crap. Rear valve cover gasket was put in by a moron, I was able to just pull most of it out without even removing the cover. Either the groove was not cleaned out or he just missed the whole corner(probably both).

The Lim gasket came of in pieces so that was that.

Now the lim itself had a decent amount of oil in it and without a pvc system on her I cant blame it on that so Im going to say thats just not normal and the cause of the smoking.

So I'll get the gaskets I need and the coolant elbows that broke and button her all up.Oh ya Im tossing in a water pump too. Part of me wants to pull the heads and go gasket up from there but Ill save that for another day, hopefully not soon lol.

So any food for thought? Any brand water pump I should avoid?

I cant wait till this thing haul's again!

[blueguy]

Just get a new GM Water Pump IMO....and stick with the GM Aluminum Gaskets, they run ya like $50 or so. You'll never really need head gaskets...unless you are building a motor...

[Blackbeauty01]

Yeah, I'm going to leave the Head gasket's alone. I just have to find where the oil is escaping into the cooling system with faith its not the HG's.

I'm going to assume(<--I know what they say) that there is an oil cooler built into the radiator. I'll bypass it and see if the coolant stays clean, if it does I'll just go to the aftermarket for that as most O.E coolers are junk anyhow.

I got a day or 2 to poke around so I'm going to do some more thread searching for anything else I can do while she is apart. I'll stick with the OEM water pump too.

[Scimmia]

Nope, no engine oil cooler. Sorry. This could conceivably have been the faulty intake gaskets, though, especially with as bad as you say they were.

Edit, I should probably clarify, there is a transmission oil cooler in the radiator, but not engine oil.

[Blackbeauty01]

Well thats one less thing I will have to play with.

Today I replaced the valve cover gaskets and sprayed the covers a nice blue. Im not sure if I want to do the SC in that blue though, Im thinking a nice gloss black. Ill post pics when its done.

I also started to upgrade the big 3. While I suspect its just the battery not holding a charge I might as well just do the upgrade with things apart.



What this blocking of coolant lines in the lim? Is it because even the 2nd revision gasket is still known to fail? I just dont understand what the benifit would be although there must be one.

The slots being filled on the SC Im taking it that its just to produce more "whine effect". If I were to do this what brand (pref part #) is the epoxy you guys are using to do it and has anyone ever had it fail. I know im just the new guy but couldnt you just make a couple small plates to cover them. Drill tap and threadlock them on? I would just be nervous the epoxy could fail and end up a disaster!

Edit: It just hit me like a brick. That oil Ive been thinking my coolant is contaminated with........ 92k.....Dexcool!

Anything anybody can suggest to clean that garbage out?

[Blackbeauty01]

OK now this really sucks.

So I put her all back together today and she fired right up. Seemed like all was well no smoking, no codes.

Then it happened. The smoke returned, it did take about 5 mins to return. After replacing everything else the only thing left that I can think of is the Head gasket wich really sucks. I took her for a ride to see how she felt and Im going to have to assume that it only happens under boost because it dont do it when I rev her in neutral but she blew oil out the dipstick. When I came to a stop she stalled right out. Good thing I opened the hood because as I was doing so the oil ignited off the exaust.

Im tired, dissapointed and annoyed. A bad combination for a fully insured vehicle that wants to burn itself! I leave for a few days training maybe Ill feel better when I come back.

I do have to ask why the dipstick would have vacuum on idle and positive pressure while driving to spit oil?

[Scimmia]

That sounds like a PCV system problem.

[Blackbeauty01]

That sounds like a PCV system problem.

I didnt even think of that, can you tell I havent owned any F/I cars...

I suppose that could also be causing the smoke if on vacuum shes sucking oil in. That was one thing that bothered me when I saw all the oil in the LIM. It didnt make sense that if it was leaking form the LIM gasket it somehow could manage to work up the runners and into the LIM. Cyl #4 the one I have randomly misfiring is the closest one to the pcv valve as well.

I do find myself curious how this pcv setup works. With the o-ring at the bottom and the seal under the plate how does this thing operate? I would thing with the back half sealed air tight that the valve would not be able to operate? Im sure that the design works but I dont like being stuck pondering how!

Well thnx for the help so far guys and I'll be back Friday night with a new valve.

[Sabrewings]

I do find myself curious how this pcv setup works. With the o-ring at the bottom and the seal under the plate how does this thing operate? I would thing with the back half sealed air tight that the valve would not be able to operate? Im sure that the design works but I dont like being stuck pondering how!

Below the PCV valve is a channel that runs through the LIM and opens to the crank case air. Above the PCV in it's little hole is a channel that runs through the blower area to the opening before the rotors. That way any positive pressure in the crank case should be able to be vented through the valve and into the blower opening to be recycled.

[Scimmia]

Hopefully it is just the valve, but for some reason, this is sounding more like the inlet side of the PCV system to me. I'm not sure how that would be possible on a stock car, though.

[Blackbeauty01]

Ok so I came home for the night and replaced the valve- No differance. I pulled the belt from the S/C and that made no differance as well. When I go to pull the oil cap I can feel a vacuum trying to hold it in and yet after I pull it off I can hold my hand back and feel the air hit my hand. So its like a suck/push pulse.

When I seal it up I can hear a washer machine like pulse in the intake however when I pull the oil cap off the noise is gone from the intake. Idle is also effect by playing with the cap, you could almost stall the engine. I pulled the belt off the S/C and it didnt change anything.

The only thing I can think of is the rings are spent.

[Scimmia]

man, this is sure sounding like the inlet on the PCV. You sure everything is stock, throttle body, supercharger, and lower intake? No TB spacers or intercooler or anything?

[Blackbeauty01]

man, this is sure sounding like the inlet on the PCV. You sure everything is stock, throttle body, supercharger, and lower intake? No TB spacers or intercooler or anything?

I dont have any reason to believe that she was modded. There are no spacers between the Lim or the TB. I do know that she was hit in the front as the hood belongs to a N/A car according to the epa sticker and the fans are clearly marked from a salvage yard. As far as the S/C I am not familiar with models available and would probably have to compare the P/N.

Another thing that I forgot to mention, I recall oil being in the EGR tube as well. Not just the regular carbon build-up. On the EGR side of the lim there is the EGR tube bolted to the upper slot and right below it there is a plate held in by 2 bolts. I assume this is covering another opening and it looks like OE

I wont be able to look at the car untill tomorow, so Im working off of memory. I decided to bring the wifes Laptop up to Camp Johnson so Im not so damn bored with the rediculous amount of downtime!

Im really really stumped on this one, maybe the lim or S/C has a crack?

I could put compressed air down the dipstick but that would just confirm a leak somewhere and I think that is already obvious.

Im going to pull the S/C and take pics tomorow, I really think the oil has to be coming from somewhere in the S/C for it to puddle in the LIM.

Thank you guys for helping me out as well, hopefully I wont have this dumb look on my face for much longer when my wife asks me what I think!

[Sabrewings]

I really think the oil has to be coming from somewhere in the S/C for it to puddle in the LIM.

Engine oil doesn't go up into the supercharger. It has its own oil contained in the snout. I don't think it goes through the LIM anywhere either. Just goes up to the heads and pours back down.