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05-10-2009
i say that the ssic is ok if you want moderate cooling. I make the phenolic versions, seen on this site, and im building myself one right now actually and gonna put it on cuz i wanna drop to a 3.0 pulley. I am confident that the phenolic version is better than the aluminum version and i wont have any problems with it at all. Eventually ill go full sized but i want to see what this one will do.
05-10-2009
headers are overrated. even zzp says that headers arent really NEEDED until AFTER a cam, and even then you could do without. if your not goin with a real extreme build, plog/ported rear mani/ 3" dp is fine. i had pace****ters and took them off after i seen how my friends car ran with a plog and 3" dp on a 3.5" pulley (gen 5). after that i was like wtf i got headers, still have 6* kr after a zzp dyno tune, and i have to deal with all the leaks and headaches those things gave me, and i wasnt about to drop a grand on headers. if you cant find a used full size, get a short stack. i dont see why people say its 100% useless when theres people runnin 12's with it.... and its easier to install as you dont need different fuel lines, use stock pcv function, etc. its about half the price. for the money of a new full size, get a ssic and a cam. my .02.....
05-10-2009
Originally Posted by 00gpgtp
You haven't been around too long have you? Headers over rated? Plog better? SSIC does NOT retain stock fuel rail use. Yes, you do use the stock fuel rails but you ahve to use the injector spacers, which INTENSE sells for use on full sized I/Cs as well. PCV function is also retained on the S2 I/C if you oblong the PCV hole on the LIM.
05-10-2009
i hope your kidding...
05-10-2009
Agree. Headers are win compared to anything.
First off. Hush your mouth. Headers are one of the best mods for a 3800 motor. There are many reasons why your friend beat you and your car was slow with headers. A) You are a fat ass, B) Your car was tuned by ZZP, C) He has a GenV. A GenV'ed car with a 3.5" and a tune vs. a GenIII car with headers and other misc. mods will most likely beat it everytime IMO. GenV is a very efficient blower and will walk all over a GenIII'ed car mod for mod. Another thing is the pulley size you were running. It was probably too small of a pulley for your car if you were getting 6*, and yet again...ZZP blows balls at tuning.
Second of all. If you have the money...keep it. A Short Stack Intercooler is a joke. Proven time and time again that you could also get rockers and headers and beat a SSIC'ed car for a cheaper price. A full size IC will blow the doors off of any SSIC'ed car. You can retain the stock fuel rails. Hell you can still retain stock EVERYTHING on a S2IC car.
Third. You must have no mechanic skills then. I'd buy Pacesetter's all over again for the price. If you can't get them to seal then that is your problem. Learn how to install them.
Fourth. What do you consider extreme? A car with rockers is too extreme for you? Headers are a awesome mod on ANY car. Hell I bet a Geo would run better with a header on it. Many GTP's run headers. Horsepower proven. But go ahead. Get a PLOG, 3" DP Combo and a Cam. I'll run you with my cammed car and headers and you should for sure win. Shut up and go home noob.
05-10-2009
Deleted
Last edited by gtora69; 05-10-2009 at 11:15 PM.
05-10-2009
Problem number 1
still have 6* kr after a zzp dyno tune
Problem number 2
05-10-2009
05-11-2009
Nick (bluegtp91) pretty much took the words right out of my mouth...
O and trust me dude...S2 IC will blow away a SSIC...
05-11-2009
LOL!!!!! where to start..... well i have plenty enough mechanical skills to put headers on. i did it, they suck. and seeing as how im not the only one who had problems with them sealing, youde have to tell everyone that has them they have no mechanical skills. second, im a fat ass, i guess if u think 140 lbs is fat lol. my buddy with the comp g i was talkin about actually weighs about 220, so if anything, its to my advantage. third, his car was running with a zzp 1.0 canned tune, i had a dyno tune. fourth, since the gen 5 is more efficiant, moves more air and therefore has to run a smaller pulley compared to a gen 3, ide think a 3.5 on a gen v, is around the same boost as a 3.4 on a gen 3. so if a plog is good enough for that, why would it be worse for me? makes no sense to me. since then i have picked up a dhp and have been doing a little tuning myself, am now only getting 2-3*kr. i know i go against the grain when it comes to headers, but i dont think they have the gains everyone talks about. maybe its just my car, but i see a lot of people runnin good times without them... and i assume that my join date here means im a noob? lol have fun header nutswingers, they just werent for me. didnt mean to piss anyone off haha. all the ssic needs is injector spacers. so to me, it does its job, some like it some dont, but not everyone has 1500 to put on an intercooler. im just wondering why when i went to zzp they were talkin to me about their more inexpensive products (ssic, plog, rockers) when they could easily talk up the stage 3 ic, xp(z) cam, headers. they could have said, dont even think about going any further until you get our $800 headers. instead he says, the plog will do good for your goals, you dont NEED headers. tim actually recommended a plog/ ported rear mani for my buddies car over headers... i guess theyre retarded.
05-11-2009
i dont ever remember saying the ssic was BETTER than the stage 2. its just more cost effective, and i have seen plenty of people, on different forums, that are pleased with it and are getting good use of it. thats all. christ, gp owners are touchy. some people have good results from headers, some not so much. its more for higher hp cars IMO (300whp+). maybe i just didnt have enough mods to notice it, but i thought it would at least get rid of the knock i had with a 3.4. also when i got them i was gonna go cam, fs ic, small pulley, but not anymore. plans change...
Last edited by 00gpgtp; 05-11-2009 at 12:55 AM.
05-11-2009
if you want a full size i make them and its alot less then zzp
05-11-2009
Nick should I?.......Or do you want to take this one?
05-11-2009
Me = Done. I said what I needed to say I got done venting LOL
05-11-2009
school me, im a noob
05-11-2009
hmm...its tempting...
05-11-2009
im waiting, goku
05-11-2009
I'm sorry...THAT^^ was funny.
05-11-2009
tell ya what...you show me hard data (IE a before and after dyno of pre and post header install) where it actually reduces the amount of power from not having headers to having headers and I wont say another word...
deal?
05-11-2009
ill look for my sheets, but i can tell you that the car dyno'd the exact same (238) with STOCK manifolds and a 3"dp, as when it was back on the dyno a few months later with headers. trust me, i hoped to see something better too. and im in no way saying zzp is the best tuners out there but im about 1 1/2 hours from them so i figure what the hell. im in no way trying to make enemies here, i just gave an opinion, spoke from MY PERSONAL experience. i should have known i was gonna get flamed from the header gods. i just think a rocker/ ic/ ~3.2 pulley with good timing is doable without paying out the ass for headers. if the OP wants to go with a cam, headers would probly be better, but not crucial at this point. again, IMO. what were people doing before ic's and headers were available for our cars? why is it now no one wants to put an intake on without headers? i dont understand
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