Thread: JP Double Roller Timing Sets

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  1. #1 JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    GT Level Member japslpr's Avatar
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    Not sure if any of you have seen this or not, but I just read this from the ClubGP website and thought I would copy it here.

    ClubGP Message Forum troubleshooting


    Here is what Zooomer had to say:

    Early summer of 2008 ZZP did a build on a customer's car and installed a JP timing set. Shortly later the chain broke taking out the cam, some valves and pushrods. We replaced all the parts and redid the build at no charge to the customer. Any time someone buys all the parts we recommend and pays us to install them, they get our highest level of warranty service.

    We figured it as a fluke and sent the parts to our distributor who then sent them back to Australia who then sent the chain to India for Rolon to inspect. Shortly after that warranty job another chain set broke. Since that time customers started emailing and calling in with broken chains. While waiting to hear back from Rolon and doing our own investigations, the failure rate reached a level where we pulled the product from our site. This was about 2 months ago. Since that time, we have heard of more problems and are now close to a 10% failure rate by estimations of problems vs. chain sets in operation.

    In dealing with this issue and doing our own research a lot of information has come out. I was asked not to cause a scare until this matter was researched by Rolon. They took a long time and got back with me about a week ago. They told me that the failure was due to a dampener being used. I told them that we never have used one. Getting ready to post information that no one wants to hear I was asked again not to post while the matter could be looked into further. This time by my distributor. They talked to Rolon who now claims that "something was rubbing on the chain". In my opinion they know nothing was rubbing and are trying to dodge responsibility. Keep in mind, this is just my opinion. Here is the email I sent last:

    It's been suggested that the chain failure we sent in was install error or "something was rubbing. Let me expound on the fallacy of this type of reasoning.

    1. If the JP sets are shipped so that the engine has to be modified, then it is a faulty product to begin with. There are no instructions listing specifics for the install and if it doesn't fit in the engine, then that is a problem with the manufacturing of the sets. Despite this, we have inspected and are clear that nothing was rubbing.

    2. ZZP has never used a dampener when installed a double roller, we have always instructed our customers not to either.

    3. We understand that some engines have an issue with the chain clearing the oil pump cover. We double up front cover gaskets and/or use a machined oil pump cover which we also offer to our customers.

    4. If the install, clearance, application was the fault of the chain failure, then every chain would fail in the same way. We have not seen that. We have customers with chain that have broken links, others have rollers that have fallen off the pins with the chain still intact. Other have fractured links that are still connected and about to fall off. I have personally seen cars where the chain was rubbing on the front cover and the failure was completely different. It left marks on the front cover and on the timing chain pins, this was not the case in any of the reported failures.

    5. We have not had a single Rollmaster failure. We are up to 10% failure with JP sets. if install was the issue, why would JPs be breaking in all types of different ways and Rollmaster sets never have a problem? This includes each failed JP car where a Rollmaster was installed in it's place with no other changes.

    6. I must issue a recall statement on the JP chain sets. In my opinion, every vehicle with one on it is in jeopardy of failing. I believe we will eventually reach ~50% failure rate. I'm quite convinced the chains themselves are junk.


    I haven't heard back yet but I have been in contact with some other people and gathered more info. They wish to remain anonymous.

    As listed above, we have never had an issue with the Rollmaster sets.
    Speaking of rollmaster, there are two chains. One has a seam (our replacement from Cloyes) and one does not (included with the rollmaster sets). Neither has had a problem but the one included with the sets is superior. Both appear to be better than the Rolon but neither are compatible with the JP timing gears.

    One source told me that the issue could have something to do with the crankshaft differences from AUS motors to US


    A modification or inspection was suggested:


    Another issue has to do with chain alignment from top to bottom gear. It was suggested that every motor needs to be spec'd for the individual set due to timing differences and when this is not done, some engines will experience failure. It was presented that single row sets should not be using the dampener.


    At this time ZZP is recommending everyone inspect their JP sets and/or replace them with Rollmaster. This holds especially true if your JP set is less than a year old. We believe that the Rolon chains are defective as we have never had a failure with the Rollmaster sets. The problem does not seem to be related to valve spring pressure as we have had a double roller fail on multiple cars with 105# springs and one was a VS cam. Ironically the user would have avoided the failure running a stock timing chain The damage from a broken chain is normally limited to bent valves requiring one or both heads to come off and valves needing to be replaced. In some cases we have seen camshafts and lifters taken out. In one lone case, the chain broke and everything was fine. Just replaced the chain and moved on. We are going to continue to press for a resolution from Rolon or JP but so far it's not looking good. If you have an unused set purchased from ZZP, we are asking you return it and inquire about a different solution. If you have a build where you purchased a JP set from ZZP in 2008 and had us do the install, we will perform the inspection for no charge and discuss your options.

    *Rollmaster was recently purchased by the investment group that owns JP. The latest batch of Rollmaster we recieved is different. The lower gears are now 2 piece like the JP and the packaging is smaller. The chains appear to be the same JWIS units. We will be conducting further tests, working with the manufactures and assisting customers through this difficult situation. We will also be relying on feedback from the community to assist in our on going investigation and I hope that any users with insight can email me or post here with their information.
    JP Double Roller Timing Sets Attached Images
    Jae Harris: 1999 GTP, PARTED OUT
    1997 GTP: K&N 9", Stage 3 Gen 3, ZZP Hub w/ 3.25, S/S Headers, T&D Split Ratio RR (I-1.6, E-1.7), DHP 1.0, BEAR Big Brake Kit, 17x9 Cobra R's, GMPP Strut Towers F/R, Stage 1 Custom Cam
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  2. #2 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    TDCRacing
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    Thanks for posting this. I was eager to see the news.
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  3. #3 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    TDCRacing
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    I am tired of hearing all of this BS....You know what let me wait for the finial conclusion before I jump to conclusions.
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  4. #4 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    GT Level Member japslpr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    I am tired of hearing all of this BS....You know what let me wait for the finial conclusion before I jump to conclusions.
    I see you run a JP set too. Have you had any problems as of yet? I am going to check mine out next month when I replace my bearings in the lower end.
    Jae Harris: 1999 GTP, PARTED OUT
    1997 GTP: K&N 9", Stage 3 Gen 3, ZZP Hub w/ 3.25, S/S Headers, T&D Split Ratio RR (I-1.6, E-1.7), DHP 1.0, BEAR Big Brake Kit, 17x9 Cobra R's, GMPP Strut Towers F/R, Stage 1 Custom Cam
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  5. #5 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    TDCRacing
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    I put that into my sig because I was hours away from purchasing one. Until I came about a used one. Then I heard this. So I am not anymore.
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  6. #6 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    DUI BABY Bio248's Avatar
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    ill write exactly what i wrote on clubgp..
    ive beat on my chain like it owes me money for a little under 20k miles. i would like to assume at this point im safe. i would really not like to change out the double roller since i do not care to even crack the front cover again.

    maybe i should?
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  7. #7 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    GTX Level Member 02BlueGT's Avatar
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    James pointed out the chamfer issue a while ago, if you don't fix the chamfer, the two gears don't line, thuis you are spinning the chain on an angle.....I'm not surprised they broke, just surprised that they didn't fix the chamfer... I mean you can see the gap when you put the gear on there...I'm gonna try and find the pictures....
    2002 GT...CAI, Headers, Special Eddition two-tone leather interior added, HUD added, 12" Brake Upgrade, ZZP strut tower bars, gmpp sway bars, poly motor mounts, -6an braided SS fuel hoses , Hptuned, Headers, Top Swaped, 50lb inj, E85, 3.4
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  8. #8 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    TDCRacing
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    Fro my understanding this is not about that issue. That was already addressed. This is a new issue concernign the quality of the chains.
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  9. #9 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    GTX Level Member 02BlueGT's Avatar
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    Gap was .014'....couldn't find a pic though
    2002 GT...CAI, Headers, Special Eddition two-tone leather interior added, HUD added, 12" Brake Upgrade, ZZP strut tower bars, gmpp sway bars, poly motor mounts, -6an braided SS fuel hoses , Hptuned, Headers, Top Swaped, 50lb inj, E85, 3.4
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  10. #10 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    GTX Level Member 02BlueGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    Fro my understanding this is not about that issue. That was already addressed. This is a new issue concernign the quality of the chains.
    If you run the chain at that angle it will break even if it is a good one right?
    2002 GT...CAI, Headers, Special Eddition two-tone leather interior added, HUD added, 12" Brake Upgrade, ZZP strut tower bars, gmpp sway bars, poly motor mounts, -6an braided SS fuel hoses , Hptuned, Headers, Top Swaped, 50lb inj, E85, 3.4
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  11. #11 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    Bastard Reptile's Avatar
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    Don't forget my issues because of the chamfer.



    I did the double gasket, AND machined my cover down.....and still got this.





    I can't say this enough.....if the rollmasters don't have the chamfer machined, they're just as much junk as the JP IMO. This was not from the chain not clearing....although it could have been just as disasterous.
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  12. #12 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    GrandPrix Junkie Sabrewings's Avatar
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    All the more reason I don't want anything to do with aftermarket chains. Just throw a new dampener and stock chain on if you need to and call it a day.
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  13. #13 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02BlueGT View Post
    If you run the chain at that angle it will break even if it is a good one right?
    I would think so. That's a lot of stress.
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  14. #14 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrewings View Post
    All the more reason I don't want anything to do with aftermarket chains. Just throw a new dampener and stock chain on if you need to and call it a day.
    Could not agree more
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  15. #15 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    TDCRacing
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    I would agree 100%. But that's kind of out of the question when you're going to be running a ST4 cam. Just think how I feel. Ya know with all the options I have and all...lol
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  16. #16 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
    Donating Users GR8racingfool's Avatar
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    Ohhh...thats bad news.

    Rollmaster double roller hear, Janice and I both had our crank gears machined and added a chamfer, as we both believed that was the main big problems...and when Brian's went crack boom bang on him...further more proved that theory.

    I LOLed to myself about those wanting to add their own chamfer with a Dremmel. here people...um...machine shop!!! Hello! Pay a little, and have it done correctly, and professionally on a lathe. Takes longer to set it up, and center it in the chuck than it does to actually machine it.

    Considered making a quick little video showing whats involved to do it next trip to the machine shop. Maybe I might do that now.

    ~F~
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  17. #17 Re: JP Double Roller Timing Sets 
     

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