Thread: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated.

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  1. #1 New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    Hey everyone, I'm having some problems with a new (to me) transmission.

    The trans started life as a 130K unit out of a somewhat clean 2002 GP GT. I was swapping my transmission out because it had 230K on it, and a pretty bad 1-2 shift. My wife even complained about it. I pulled the 2002 (we'll say new transmission from here on out) trans apart and checked everything out, everything seemed fine...actually it was in REALLY good shape. I used the new trans's torque converter, since it was higher stall, lighter, and 100k+ less miles. I took some of my old clutches for input and 3rd, scraped off all the friction material, then smoothed it up with steel wool (just to be safe), and installed it on top of the top most friction. Then I took one of the 2nd clutch steels and added it in the 2nd clutch stack the same way. Other than that, I swapped over stuff from old transmission I had upgraded (right before pulling it).

    I swapped over my gears, my HD diff, put in some hardened GXP chains, swapped over my channel plate\valve body, DIY shift kit (hardened 4th shaft, and 4th stack. The VB\Channel plate was reused because I had just bought it (used) off of this site, and it is re-manufactured with Sonnax upgrades:

    Sonnax 4T65E Boost Valve and Sleeve Kit
    Sonnax Performance Line Pressure Booster Kit
    Sonnax TCC Apply Valve Sonnax TCC Relief Valve
    Superior AFL Valve Kit
    All shift solenoids were replaced

    #2 & #3 oil feeds are opened up on the separator plate
    An extra spring in the 4th Clutch Piston Feed

    I also replaced the TCC PWM and EPC solenoids with new units I bought. In one of the many manuals\webpages I read during all this B.S. I was told to turn the EPC's adjustment screw 1\8th of a turn, so I did. I later read that this is pointless because the computer adapts to the increased line pressure...more on this in a minute.

    First start up and drive was FANTASTIC. I loved it. The more I drove it, the harder the 1-2 shift got, and the more I could hear this clattering-type noise under heavy load. This happened with the old transmission as well, but I thought it was due to the transmission's age and mileage. Whatever it was carried over to this transmission. Another problem that carried over is a random RPM drop. This'll take some explaining, so I'll give this problem it's own paragraph.

    It's not TCC oscillation to my knowledge, the oscillaltion was the entire reason I started working on the old transmission. It was repaired with the new VB and Channel plate, but the 1-2 shift problem arose. Still, the 1-2 shift on the new transmission is nothing compared to the old one. The best the old shifted is the worst that the new has shifted. Anyways, I live in a small town, so my average speed limit is 30 MPH. So naturally I do a lot of coasting, and the engine sits around 1,000 RPM while doing so. This random RPM drop happens and the engine drops to 500 RPM, and comes right back up to 1,000. I swear the PCM tries something, then says "Whoops" and puts it back. I've yet to have this happen in neutral...and I've tried...a LOT. This'll happen about once every 5 seconds, during that session of coasting. If I accelerate again or come to a stop, it might go away if I'm lucky. I've checked and swapped out my IAC, MAF, TPS, and O2 sensor. I monitor it all with Torque Pro and when the drop happens, nothing seems to trigger it. TPS is solid, MAF drops with the RPM just as the vacuum, and the IAC % doesn't change. On the HWY all is normal, except for the next problem, which will also get it's own paragraph.

    The clattering sounds like chains, and is very similar, if not the same to the noise my old transmission made...although this is louder at times. Under load with somewhat low throttle, I'd say less than 50-60% you hear clattering from the driver side of the car. If I shift the car into neutral during this behavior, the noise goes away. I also think this noise is causing false KR. With my previous transmission I saw maybe 0.1* of KR driving to Springfield, on a regular basis. Today I drove to Springfield and I hit 3.5*. The alarm for Torque Pro went off and scared the **** out of the whole family, lol. The alarm is set at 3*, and we've never heard it before. This all happened during a high load\low throttle situation, which leads me to believe the transmission was making the noise.

    The 1-2 shift problem is pretty straight forward, except for the fact it goes away when I reset TAP's, then slowly comes back. Today I reset TAP's in Springfield and it shifted GREAT, by the time I was back home it is back to being hard again. Nothing like the old transmission, but I don't think it's right. I'm thinking that when I reset TAP's the 1\8th turn I made on the EPC kicks in again, and that's why it shifts good. I'm on the verge of buying a Reptile tune for my car which has the increased line pressure in the tune, so the 1-2 shift issue might be repaired with that. The deciding factor on buying the Reptile tune is this damned transmission.

    What do you guys think is going on and what should I do? Sorry the post is so long, I wanted to be as thorough as I could. Thanks for any input!!
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
    06+ Impala brakes, L76 Springs, ERs, Self-Tuned, 3.5 Gen V L32, Ported TB, 240a CS144, SSAC, Upgraded Transmission, Android Head Unit, Remote stuff, GXP Seats

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  2. #2 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GTX Level Member Bills1997GTP's Avatar
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    Video?
    2004 Grand Prix GTP 150,000 " The New Edition "
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  3. #3 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    I can try, but the camera doesn't pick up the chattering. I can take a video of the RPM drop, and maybe the 1-2 shift it's hard to pick up in previous videos I've tried. I've thought about trying duct tape my camera under the hood so it can pickup the sound, lol.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
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  4. #4 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GTX Level Member Bills1997GTP's Avatar
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    Lol I was just about to tell you to do that. Maybe it will help in figuring out the problem
    2004 Grand Prix GTP 150,000 " The New Edition "
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  5. #5 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    Well I think I got it on video, but it's pretty faint...since the camera was directly next to the intake, my bad. I'm starting to think it might be an engine problem, but there's no misfires or anything during the sound. It might be causing some false KR on the HWY, but when it's happening at lower speeds (so I can hear it), no KR is being read. It could be my headers leaking though. Engine\trans temperature does seem to change the sound at all. Here's the video, you can only hear it at ~1:20 or so. Not sure why the camera makes it sound so lopey. Other than this trans stuff the engine runs as smooth as silk, if it weren't for the exhaust you wouldn't know it was running.

    http://vid14.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9df639e9.mp4

    Sorry about the loud intake noise.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
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  6. #6 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    I hear it.. tough to say what that is though.

    So you switched over valve body and channel plate. There were no marks on those..(right?) so we can rule them out.
    Clutches you just did, and they seem to grab good, so we can rule them out
    Diff, assuming you looked it over and nothing looked bad, we should be able to rule that out.. And you had manuals, so you ensured you put in the sun gear properly (for the diff)
    Chains, new this time around..shouldn't have carried over any issue.

    In my mind you ruled out all the internal stuff.
    Were the axle CV joints very floppy and loose? Go do a parking lot pin the wheel to one side then the other and see if you have chattering when turning test.

    On the shifts.. not sure who told you to turn the epc. And with the feed holes enlarged, I don't believe higher pressure will make you happier. It'll feed even faster and shift harder. If anything.. I believe you are looking for lower pressure.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  7. #7 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    The one thing I saw on the channel plate was that it has been broken\re welded. I assume by VBX. No marks that I can see, out of the usual stuff by the 4th shaft from the clutch stack. If I end up tearing into again, I thing I'm going to swap all the Sonnax\Superior stuff over to the "new" valve body and install that. I've checked the CV's under weight (car not jacked up) and they have a little inward\outward play, but nothing else. If I could make the 1-2 shift just like the 2-3 or 3-4 shift, I'd be VERY happy.

    I'm trying to find where I read to do the 1\8th turn on the EPC, I know I read it somewhere. If I needed lower pressure, wouldn't the TAP reset make it worse? Since I turned up the pressure (with the screw on the solenoid), and it gets better, wouldn't that mean I need higher pressure?
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
    06+ Impala brakes, L76 Springs, ERs, Self-Tuned, 3.5 Gen V L32, Ported TB, 240a CS144, SSAC, Upgraded Transmission, Android Head Unit, Remote stuff, GXP Seats

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  8. #8 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    I honestly am unsure. I think you found it on ZZP
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  9. #9 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    BTW.. this may answer your questions/issues
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/60667775/T...ldmobile-4T65E
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  10. #10 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    Nope, it's in the ATSG Update 4t65e manual. I knew I wasn't insane. Page 30, Figure 24. In the Update manual, not the normal manual.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
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  11. #11 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    We have no proof you are not insane. You have pulled this trans and or been into the side over of your trans like 5 times now.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  12. #12 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    I'm a perfectionist, what can I say, lol. 4 times with the side cover off, 1 time pulling the entire transmission. I think I'll pull it again, seemed easier for some reason. Although it was the only time I was working in a garage. I figure I should make sure it all works great now, while it's still fresh in my head. I don't want something breaking in a year or two when I have forgotten a lot of this stuff.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
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  13. #13 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    It'll all come flooding back.. no worries..
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

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  14. #14 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
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    Either way, I'm thinking it's gotta be the channel plate and\or valve body causing these problems. I think I'm going to swap out as much of the Sonnax stuff I can over to the new stuff and put it in.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
    06+ Impala brakes, L76 Springs, ERs, Self-Tuned, 3.5 Gen V L32, Ported TB, 240a CS144, SSAC, Upgraded Transmission, Android Head Unit, Remote stuff, GXP Seats

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  15. #15 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    Transgo Shift kit is installed, and it helped quite a bit. I found that my oil pressure switch was leaking, so that probably explains the slight valve clatter I heard. While I was fixing that today I found my differential has quite a bit of up and down play. I found a few threads on this, but no definitive answer, so I took a video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byMT1JXV59c
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  16. #16 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Transmission Expert Trannyman95's Avatar
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    I don't see anywhere what chain sprockets you used. Did you use the original ones from your GTP trans OR did you use what came in the 2002 GT trans? That will cause a big problem if you used the GT trans sprockets as they are different tooth count and ratio than the stock GTP sprockets and will require reprogramming the pcm to fix the ratio mis-match.

    If you used the GTP chain sprockets in the new trans then you should be fine on the gear ratio and on to my next question- What are the fuel trims doing when you experience the rpm drop while coasting? This may not be trans related at all and I have experienced this before but its been a while. It was fuel related and the pcm running a test during coast.
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  17. #17 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    I used the GTP sprockets. My fuel trims at idle at -20 (LTFT) and worse at 2500 RPM, so it could very well be something with the fuel trims. I haven't looked to see what they are doing when the RPM drops happens, but it doesn't (or hasn't yet) happen in neutral. What do you think about that play in my differential (youtube video in my last post)?
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
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  18. #18 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    Diff is normal enough.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  19. #19 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    LTFT's are at -8% to -10% while coasting, and drop to -12.5% when the RPMs drop and return to ~10% when the RPM comes back up.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
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  20. #20 Re: New (er) Transmission Problems...Irritated. 
    GrandPrix Junkie Booba5185's Avatar
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    So here we are 2 months later, with a new tune (Bill's trans tune) along with a little bumped timing and the RPM drop at idle is still dropping while coasting. I really think it it trying to go into lockup while coasting or something. LTFTs are still -8% to -10% on average, so no change there. This is really driving me insane.
    Retros, LEDs, SD Hood GMPP, Votland, Addco
    06+ Impala brakes, L76 Springs, ERs, Self-Tuned, 3.5 Gen V L32, Ported TB, 240a CS144, SSAC, Upgraded Transmission, Android Head Unit, Remote stuff, GXP Seats

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