Down With Bush

[GeddyLee]

I'm what's wrong with this country???

I would not say you are what is wrong with our Country. As I said in my statement the topic of conspiracies into the 9/11 incidents hits many people on a deep emotional and personal level. You are given your rights to speak your mind and voice your opinions, but sometimes there are limits to how much people can take or maybe that are willing to take in regards to a certain event.

I'm sorry but if the founders of this nation hadn't stood up against the tyranny they experienced on behalf of the English we would not be here. As for their reason why they declared independence, (among other things) it was to be free from the corrupt banking system they had in England at the time. This country was built on an idea of freedom, and independence from the ruling class.

You are quite right about our Country's hertiage. You have no arugment from me on that.

I am a patriot.

I am afraid this comment can be twisted in so many ways. I know what you are saying, but when you look at people like the Timothy McVay's and others who have committed teroristic acts against our very own country, they viewed themselves as "patriots" as well. But in the worst way imaginable. The Muslim extremists who committed these acts viewed themselves as Ala's instrument of fighting the infidels, we the people of the United States. And people of their country, and other muslim countries viewed their acts almost as if they were patriots for their cause. This why I think patriotism can be mistaken at many levels.

I will never doubt your patriotism, but some of us who have weathered through the tragedy of 9/11 and have suffered losses and emotional distress over that day and the days following will have very different views on someone who thinks that this was a US lead conspricay to get our country into a war.

Im not just tossing around liberal b.s. there is a movement founded by structural engineers and architects who look at these attacks and say, wait a minute... These towers were stronger than that.

This is the heart of a very sore topic. NO DOUBT! While I can appreciate your point of view, you have to ask yourself, why aren't there congressional hearings on such a topic, why aren't there better leads to suggest such things happened? We can sit here for the next 20 years and debate how structurally sound metal is and how a plane fully loaded with jet fuel could melt metal on a building that was meant to withstand an impact from a much smaller commercial airliner be able to cause the tragedy we all witness countness times over and over again on live TV and replays every 5 seconds on national TV.

I have heard the theories about men with suitcases entering the Towers weeks before the events of 9/11 and I have heard the controlled demolition theories to abnasuism. While some of that may seem phesable*, I sincerely doubt our own Country would committe such ungodly acts upon its own Country. Is our Country at fault for some of the events that lead up to 9/11? I would have to say YES.

Yes they are guilty of failing to see the warning signs and missed transmitions of the "chatter" in the terrorist community, yes they are guilty for failing to listen to the FBI offical who had credible information that an attack was imment. Those are certainly breakdowns in our system, and the Government is trying to fix them.

Will we ever be a 100% safe and terror free Country? The simple answer is NO! But can we make our Country safer? Another simple answer is YES! You see people crying about their civil liberties being violated when the Government wants to tap their phone lines IF they are a suspected terrorist. To me, I say let them tap all the dang phones! Why? Cause if you are only talking to your Aunt Suzie about a cooking recipe or if you and your girlfriend are having a personal converation, and not planning a terrorist attack? What do you really have to fear? If you are an upstanding member of the community and are NOT planning actions that might harm this Country in any way? What do you really have to worried about?

I know many would and will debate this till our dying days. But if that is a part of making our Country safer? Then I am all for it. And even if the Goverment does not tap ALL the phones in the US, at least the fear or the potential to discover leads through the tapping would deter some would be terrorist, I am all for it. Sometimes it is fear of not knowing if someone is being monitored or watched that will prevent some crimes from happening.

People have to understand, we have evolved over the years in technology. No longer do you have someone at a switchboard connecting phone calls on a punchboard. We are in an electronics era, where Cell phones rule our lives, and TV baby sits our children. Things have changed since the early days of our Country. And better means of survaliance must be created to keep up with the growing threats of terror in our Country.

As for the 9/11 topic, i will cease to post my beliefs as i see it may create a threat for my life from some of the more heavily-armed folks in this forum.

Am I missing something here? I did not recall anyone threatening your life? Or unless something happened outside of this thread? If that is the case? You should report it and have it dealt with. No one should be threatened because of their beliefs. Even if they differ from someone else's.

But you should relize that i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist who believes anything that im told

While I will not say you are crazy, you have your rights to believe in whatever you wish to believe. But when almost all theories of these people have been debunked time and time again, it still does not sit well with a lot of people as I mentioned above. The controlled charge theory I can see what they say when you see the building collapse upon itself, but people seem to forget a simple fact. The building was severed, not in half mind you, but pretty darn close. And you have planes FULL of highly volitale jet fuel that is one of the highest burning properties known to man soaking through floor after floor melting poor insulated metal that lay beneath.

And once that metal was melted away, the weight of the building could not withstand the weight of the building still resting above it. By shear luck and God's grace, some would say, the towers simply collapsed on themselves. Had they of fallen to the left or to the right? We would have had WAY MORE deaths that day. Conspriacy theorist will say it was made or done that way for affect. Fine they can go with that theory. IF that is the case? Then I think we could have done something smaller and still had the same impact.

If our Government was somehow involved in such a travisity? Then they will pay for their sins when they die. But for people who think Dick or George sat in some dark bunker hashing this out are watching to many X-Files episodes. Of course that is my opinion, and my opinion may differ from you and others out there. That is what makes our Country so great. We have the freedom to debate and disbelieve and believe in whatever we want.

However, when i see the footage of those towers falling (the first steel buildings to ever collapse due to fire in the history of high-rise buildings) I believe it is my patriotic duty to seek the truth. Don't be satisfied with the first explanation your given. Do your own research before you begin bashing an honest person's ideas.

I am not going to sit here and bash your ideas, I will debate your ideas and try and not let my personal feelings over take my words. Others sometimes are not able to seperate those emotions from their words and they can come across very harsh. I can understand that and have been on both sides of the fence. I worked as a Police Officer for eight years and I have seen those very things you mentioned.

You mention its "my patriotic duty to seek the truth." I can certainly respect that, but when you have 3/4 of the population and more than 3/4 of the architects in the US and the world for that matter debunking a lot of theorists beliefs about what actually happened during 9/11, it is MY belief that it happened the way it did. It was not grand coverup or someone's grand design on world domination. It was a series of events that will forever change our lives and the way we live. We can longer rest easy knowing we are the safest Country in the world.

Sure we have never been invaded, not like Canada or Mexico can really mount any kind of Military assault on the US anyways But we know now as a Nation we are vulnerable. We have weaknesses and those weaknesses need to be addressed. And IF our very own Government was involved in something so horrible as 9/11 was? Do you think our news media would let it pass? I mean look at all what you see on the TV news. Do you not think by now some reporter or investigative journalist would have unearthed something by now? Nothing can be hidden forever, and sooner or later, if there is a truth to be told, it will be discovered.

Maybe I want to be a blind sheep and follow the herd. Maybe I do not wish to think our Government could be capiable of such horrific acts, but I rest in the belief our Country and Government is here for the greater good, not the greater evil. While I may disagree on paths our Country has taken over the years, I am still proud to say I am an American. And I will say for anyone who thinks our Country is a great evil oppressor, needs to go live in Iraq or Iran and really see what evil and oppression is truly about. We have it good here in the United States of America. And I would like to see it stay that way for the many generations that will follow us.


Ok I am going to go soak my fingers now............ Thanks for listening