Thread: 2000 GTP: Still Alive! New Trans?

That reminds me, here's the center caps. Not sure why the one looks like it has a dent, must be the picture or something.

O Yeah its gonna look vomitory behind that molding. Never fear. Snip off the ugly crap and leave a flange to bond on some low-cut rockers. As long as the doors clear, all you'd have to worry about is painting the white strip there in the jamb. Body-color-wise, that is. It could be a no welding rattle can driveway thing but sparks and noise will be necessary to cut the old panels off and clean up the rest. Worst part is all the upside-down time, but theres more than one way to skin a cat. I was thinking you're not set up for welding? Don't waste much time trying to save rusty foil, hack it out. Take a small phillips head and poke poke poke, see how far it goes.

I have an engineer at work that's offering to help with his mig. He's not just someone who says he's an engineer, and he seems rather smart. This weekend is exploratory surgery, I order parts during the week then hopefully do it the following weekend. What's your feelings on these?

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,cata...AN_84404L.html

Originally Posted by Booba5185

I have an engineer at work that's offering to help with his mig.

Make his day and do it without, using panel bonding adhesive. I can walk you through, done it on many roofs and quarters. That outer rocker is just a molding holder, not structure. That starts at the next panel in. That statement should reduce nail biting somewhat. Truth is, you'll end up with much more corrosion resistance bonding it. Pause to ponder the burnt paint around welds... weld-thru primer is a hoax. I've never held those Shermans in my hand (wait, thats a lyric from something) but they would work with trimming. Imagine doing a new rocker in posterboard and glue. Same thing, only metal and its already bent.

If you feel queasy about an all-bonded panel repair, weld it at the front and back. Thats the procedure for warranties anyway. The trick is the trimming and fitting and thats where you can think of it as something less intimidating than car metal to ease your mind on the chop chop stuff. Heck a jigsaw would probably work. Prolly gonna want to pull the rear door when fixing this, and you may have to "under'lap?" it at the top to keep the molding fit. Search 3M panel bonding adhesive. You don't HAVE to buy the fancy gun, just use a bondo board and spreader.

Heres a thread Bill stuck my name on where we talked about this on his-

http://www.grandprixforums.net/threads/89268-Body-Work

Here's a VCR quality panel bonding adhesive vid-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXrGJ_D4CWg

That'd be cool, I'd love to do this myself. Then I can do one side one weekend and the other the next. Then I only need to weld the rear strut tower. Any recommendations on where to go online to buy the rust proofing stuff? I'll want to coat the inner and outer rockers and both strut towers when the time comes. That'd be somewhere around 20 square feet, what do you think? 2 coats? Thanks man, this info is invaluable.

No clue as to a good online source, Summit is pretty reasonable on what they have. Whether you spray, roll, or brush... I bet a quart will do all the insides of the inner and outer rocker. A word for clarity, about rust"proof"ing...

If you're gonna plan to do one rocker per weekend, you better get crack-a-lackin on Friday evening. Scope out the directions on some of the products I've talked about and you'll see what I mean. Temps can't fall below 55 or the adhesive stops curing. The rust converter takes time and usually a repeat app, if you follow the instructions.

Seriously, if you go to some local (-ish, I know, village) parts / paint store that has oh... SEM Rust-Mort or Mar-Hyde One Step or Ospho... I'm not that particular about the brand on CONVERTER but they do vary widely. A two-step means must neutralize after. Eastwood used to have a two-component converter that was wicked. But when I use their one step, I never wait the whole time but I always sand off all I can.

If you don't mind foregoing the "for rust" buzzwords, just buy a small bottle of converter and brush it on as needed. Buy a quart of epoxy primer like PPG's DP series-

http://www.tcpglobal.com/PPGDP48LF-QT.html

and hardener-

http://www.tcpglobal.com/PPGDP401LF-PT.html

...and slather that on 2-3 coats for the insides. Dry and hose with glossy spray paint. Then bond the panel on with proper prep and worry then about the outside. Save a little epoxy and white spray paint for that (the exterior face). You following so far? The money for the epoxy primer and bonding adhesive is worth it, about a hun there. Maybe a bit more. If you do this right, there won't be much rust if any to "proof". the rust converter actually changes the surface of iron oxide into an inert layer not unlike gun blueing. I swear by 3M XT clean n strip discs to clean the metal after converter does the job. Use it then some 80 grit, clean with solvent and its ready for epoxy. The epoxy doesn't care how you apply it. My 69GP has brushed-on epoxy under it all.

So far. I basically cut out the cancer as much I can, cover whatever rush I can't in converter, then mix equal parts of that DP epoxy stuff in your links and paint it all over anything a can see on the inner rocker, attach the slip on rocker with the panel adhesive, and do the same **** to the outside. Think this would be enough for both sides?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trm-8115


Oh and my night just got better. I threw the side marker in the oven to clean up, set the microwave timer, and then my boy (or someone) stopped the timer...sidemarker melted. I'm trying to polish up the old one, but I might need to buy a new one.

Aw maaan-- lol bumz. Gotta love kiddos!

The idea in my mind is to cut out everything except the last 1/2 -3/4" of what isn't covered by the replacement panel... once the part you don't want to use is trimmed away. Like that sill area, don't think you'll need that. No sense having an extra layer afterwards except for the bond flange so just trim the new part, lay it on the old and outline it with a sharpie then chop an inch in from there to start. Having part in hand is necessary to nail the procedure down past that.

I fit patches so they butt, and weld them. Its truly overkill here. Your upper seam is gonna end up being the skyward-facing horizontal flat strip between the outermost edge of the rocker, and where it goes vertical. A guy could put a row of plug welds there instead of a butt weld but bonding will just be a one layer overlap with maybe a seam sealer or adhesive wipe around the edge before paint. Much less mess.

Once you establish fit and have the nice flat overlap all around, then you coat insides of all and dry. Then sand the mating flanges only, bare, on both sides with rough grit. A medium RTV-like smear plus small bead of the adhesive covering all the bare flange areas on both sides then stick it. Screw or rivet in place, fancy dudes might use Clecos. Next day take screws out and dab more adhesive in the holes. Now its on and you're ready to paint the outside. Mock the rocker molding retainer up all the way before glue. I prefer 1/8" double-end bits and short drill tip phillips head SMS or clamps for fitting.

One container of panel bond should do ya. Another reason to attack just one side at a time. Don't wanna run short!

Sounds somewhat easy enough, just some $ and time. I might be able to take the car down for a few days before the weekend and work on it before work, do the painting and all that then let it cure while I'm at work. I think I might actually do both sides at the same time (ish). I have an O'reilly's local and they have the panel adhesive in stock, so I can order the one for cheaper and if worst comes to worse I can buy another tube(s) from them. That ways I can paint (epoxy) everything at the same time, and only have to take the car down once. I can always take a "sick" day on Friday or Monday to give me another day of work, but it sound like it's one of those jobs where I do one thing then wait a day, then do another thing and wait a day, etc.

Originally I had "budgeted" $100 for the panels to my door (which hasn't changed), $120 for rust stuff (isn't too far off), $100 for welding (which now goes towards panel adhesive so I'm potentially saving money), and $75 for materials. Sounds like I'm not too far off budget, I hope. Only thing I'm really worried about is the rear doors where you can see the rust starting in the corner of the bottom quarter panel. Hopefully it'll still be sound enough to clean up and epoxy, but not patch. We'll see tomorrow.

I said f*ck it to the side marker, it's $16.91 on Amazon, I'll just drive around with a chitty lens for a week.

I bet your kitchen smells lovely now.

If its dry out, no reason you couldn't drive it a little with no rocker or molding. If needed.

Before purchasing any chemical coatng, adhesive, etc- ALWAYS GO to the manufacturer's website and FULLY READ the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET for that specific product. This isn't a fireman telling you to read your MSDSs, but a bodyman / painter telling you where the current official usage info is. It changes, too. Good stuff has no directions on the can. I believe the mixing ratio on that epoxy is 2:1, not 1:1, and reducer can be added too. All those secrets are on the tech sheet, and you can't use a product properly for certain based on hearsay. Never ask anybody what a mixing ratio is, trust no one. Whoever you buy it from is supposed to make that info available as well. Sometimes a little reading between the lies (like how many coats something actually takes to cover) is required, but your prep grits and all that will be there.

Now that I laid out he steps and advised you about time and products... save a little too-

The converter- Apply evenly, sand when dry (a few minutes- half hour) Go again if pits are still brown. After 2 apps and sanding you ain't getting any more rust out. Wire brushes are like bringing a knife to a gunfight, use strip discs then sandpaper. Solvent clean and apply epoxy.

Mask the bond flanges, don't sand twice.

When the epoxy dries to the touch, go ahead with spray paint

When you can handle that, unmask and apply adhesive. Work time half hour or so depending on # chosen.

Screw part on at the end of a day, give it 12 hours then drive as needed. You could start prepping the outside but best to let the cure happen undisturbed and remember temps. Molecular crosslinking in catalyzed products halts at around 55F. Infrared lamps speed it up. Might not have your molding mounted on Monday, but hey no worries just wind noise.

Wait, its not gonna be 55+ at night for awhile yet. All day on a 60F+day should do it. Of course sunshine brings that metal temp up. Read the sheet and noodle a solution out. Or weld... I guess I didn't think of what time of year it is, always do my bonding indoors, y'know?

I can live without the car for a few days, then borrow my Mother-in-laws GP as needed from there, so I could probably go down for a week total. That way I could do the prep work and everything at the same time, then epoxy is all at the same time. I can lay the new panels in the truck bed and it'll get PLENTY of sun, but I'd still leave it for at least a day...unless I'm told not to let it set that long in between coats when I read the technical stuff.

Out of curiosity, why paint the epoxy on the inside? I'm definitely taking a road trip down to AR when I'm done to show you the work, take you to lunch, and shake your (good) hand. Might be after the AZ trip though, lol. You are a good man, Charlie Brown.

Originally Posted by Booba5185

Out of curiosity, why paint the epoxy on the inside?

ANY bare metal gets epoxy. Those Sherms look like they have cosmoline or cheap clear on em. The primers described as DTM (direct-to-metal) such as the DP series don't do much else but stick to metal. One trick pony.They don't sand or fill well, etc. And they are porous (not water or weatherproof, contrary to poular belief). You want that in there because you can't clean it out later. Neither the epoxy or the spray paint can seal off the metal AND stick to it, like we need here. No catalyst in the spray paint but its a valid topcoat inside a rocker. The two together do pretty good. But as I mentioned a ways back, internal panel coating is the trump card. After the repair, you fog the whole cavity with a wand spraying wax/oil mix that clings to the walls and coagulates into a soft coating on top of all that. Seals air most effectively away and runs with gravity to where its needed. Cool stuff.

Thats where GM fell short, on the inside of rockers. Tahoe I was working has same trouble spot. I guess the robots don't like to bend down and spray all the way down into that deep stamping. European and high end asian cars are dripping with what I call "cavity wax" (sparing innuendos), the OEs are learning its cheaper than better paint jobs on structure. Pretty much required to make bodies last as long as engines in the CNC age.

Can I be Snoopy, his dog instead? Lately I'm more like Eeyore. Time to knock it back with pills. Sleep on it.

1 more- DP is available in maybe five colors. Light grey would be second choice but harder to cover. Its just that nobody buys white and the stuff does go bad. Nobody buys pints of hardener much either, just be sure you're getting reasonably fresh product. read the shelf life. And be aware some epoxy primers (or the hardener) have an induction period (wait time0 after mixing before use.

peace bodyman.

Read the technical stuff for the epoxy, what is 80180 abrasive?

http://buyat.ppg.com/RefinishProduct...c-2913affbcd6e

Oh yea, I ordered all the stuff for LEDs last night, the rear tails, front headlights, license plate, and cluster will all be LED. I did the math and it could save me up to 10 amps at idle. Retros save me 18 amps when the high beams are on, lol.

Well I pulled the side skirt off of the passenger side, and it's roughly what I expected. Maybe a little bit better. The inner rocker appears to be in very good shape, the outer...as expected is toast. Only problem I have to figure out is the very back of the rocker...I'll let the pics speak for themselves...
Starting from the front, working my way back:

There were no holes when I pulled of the side skirt, just splits. I started poking around and it turned into this:

Inner rocker, best i could get:


In between the 2 doors:

Back door:


And the only real problem I have at the moment. I don't think the slip on covers go back this far...


All in all, not as bad as I expected. I expected the outer rocker to be ****, and i was very worried about the inner rocker but from what I can see it'ls fine!

years of fun left in them rockers.

Yep, that's why I'm fixing it before it gets any worse. You know where to get a body panel piece for that rear most (last) picture?

dont new rockers go that far? maybe they sell something like cab corners for pick up trucks. aka patch panels. if not you'll have to cut a good one from a junked car.

Cutting a good one is what I'm worried about, really. I might be able to cut one of the universal rockers to go back that far....I'm gonna run out and put it back together for now and get some pics of the driver side...