Coolant leaks or major block damage?

[Vincenzo]

I apologize if this kind of issue was discussed somewhere else in the past, but I tried searching and couldn't find anything that helps.

So, in my 2008 GP 3L8 that is about 8 years old now with 125K miles, I was driving last night and everything was going well until I decided to stop for a smoke while the engine was running. It usually rarely reaches (or exceeds a tiny little bit) 1/2 the engine temperature gauge especially with the AC on, but looking through the window, I noticed that it was persistently a little bit over 1/2. I thought I'd drive a little fast after my stop so the wind blows the radiator and it should go back to normal. Drove for a couple of miles and the temp never came down, I stopped, and it started crawling up slowly and when it was in the middle between 1/2 and 3/4, I knew that something was wrong, So, I shut off the engine, opened the hood and saw the side of the water pump looking like a fountain.

I towed it to a garage who accepted my new napa water pump and accessory belt that I bought on my way. They found that a very small part of the water pump gasket had blown, so they replaced both. The car starts nicely (which, I hope, means no major engine damage) but the guy said that it still leaks excessively from behind and under the new water pump. He tried a mirror and replaced the lower hose with no change. It's a franchise shop that was open on a Sat morning that could get me in and take my parts with decent prices but they are limited in what they can do. He wasn't sure if the head gasket was blown (8-10 hours labor which = about $1000) or if the block was cracked or if it is something as minor as a "freeze plug" that is causing it and suggested that I take it to a more advanced garage that can open the head or disassemble more stuff to get a final answer.

We discussed major engine repairs as compared to getting a junk yard engine or getting a re-manufactured engine from JASPER with a 100k miles warranty (especially since I'm trying to keep this GP forever and since I put a remanufactured tranny a year ago for $3k) as a worst case scenario.

I need some advice and if there is a way to finance such a major repair, so that I can do the best option that is the most expensive one which makes more sense and price estimates.
I just moved this month and had a couple of financial inconveniences at the same time in addition to having to go tomorrow to rent a car to be able to go to work every day, so my budget is pretty tight.

Any advice/opinions/analyses are very much appreciated

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

If it's still pissing coolant from behind the water pump area it's going to the front cover gasket or the coolant elbows, though the elbows are in slightly different spots.

I highly doubt the head gasket blew, if the mechanic smarter or more pro-active he could have tested for exhaust gases in the cooling system or do a compression test to see what's up before jumping to major repairs.

[Vincenzo]

no, actually the "mechanic" is just an inexperienced kid in his late 20's making a living in a national franchise. They were the only ones available at the time. He did do pressure testing and that didn't help him narrow down the source but increased his suspicion of a head gasket. He looked under and over the car and used a mirror. Then as a last resort, he replaced the lower hose and took it out when he knew that it didn't make a difference. He said that it was oozing like a head gasket problem and at the same time pouring out coolant from that mysterious place around the block that he couldn't find. If the water pump gasket had blown, then the pressure in the engine was released, but I can never know. I'm taking it Monday morning to the most experienced and relatively honest shop in town but I'm still researching financing if the worst case turned real.

What is the probability that those little freeze plugs may be the cause?

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

Freeze plugs are only on the side of the engine, not near the water pump.


I still says it's the front cover leaking. The water pump bolts to the front cover and the front cover bolts to the iron engine block with 2 gasket around the coolant passage. If the gasket between the cover the block is blown too, it's going to piss coolant everywhere just as if the water pump was bad.

Also if he didn't use thread sealer on the bolts going back into the coolant jacket for the water pump, it can leak coolant still.

[Vincenzo]

I'm praying that What you're saying and that he didn't do a good job is true

[Vincenzo]

I wish I know how to post pictures here, but it didn't work for me because no matter how small the JPEG files I try to upload, it keeps telling me that they are too large (or some message of that sort).
I was trying to post pictures of my original water pump that I spent $200 to replace it with a napa Chinese shiny piece of garbage that has a "made in china" in big print screaming at my face.
The original pump rotates with no sounds or looseness and looks perfect to me. There is only one little crack in the gasket close to one of the fasteners holes that the 20 year old beginner probably made to justify his fee for replacing the pump.

So, without even looking at it, the experienced mechanic in the new garage I sent it to told me that it is very probable and happens in all those 3.8L GM engines that there are two plastic elbow tubes that come out of the block to and from the belt tensioner that break or their O-rings. I hope that he's right and I wish that I spent some time watching Youtube videos and replace those little tubes myself.
If he's correct, then it should be an easy job (only removing the alternator and the tensioner assembly) that won't take much time or work.

Did anyone do that fix at a garage? and what could be a good estimate for the labor?

[Scottydoggs]

elbows are 10 bucks for new, and a hour or your time tops. very easy to change.


for pics you need to upload them to photobucket fb or what have you, then copy the url addy, link addy what every it says when you right click the pic, then past it int he pic icon window in the reply boy.

upload from pc to the site dont work well at all. as you can see.

[Vincenzo]

Thank you Scotty.
I learned today that my engine model does not have those elbow tubes (and probably all GM 3800 engines that were manufactured around 2008).
The mechanic called telling me that he needs to open the timing case because 90% it's gasket is the cause of the leak (or may be there are worse stuff but not probable). He needed 3 days to finish the repair and it will be about 8 hours of labor with some minor parts that will add up to about $1050.

Is that number normal, or a little bit exaggerated?
The guy's hourly labor rate is a little lower than national franchises even though he has 10 senior guys who are all transmission and engine experts and his numbers add up, but I may sell one of my kids or get a crazy personal loan to pay him.

[231FUN]

Nonsense...All series 2 and series 3 3800 engines have coolant elbows...your 08 is not exempt lol. Sounds like your mechanic is taking you on a ride if he's telling you that...

[Scottydoggs]

run from this guy. fast, hes a scammer.

[Vincenzo]

I used this guy couple times before for the sole reason that he was more honest than others. He has a big honesty reputation in this town and everybody knows him and his big garage. I called a smaller shop to ask for the same timing case service and they talked about $500-600, so I will probably tow it tomorrow for the forth time to this new guy to save some bucks because I couldn't find someone/something to lend me $1000 and I already have half of it if that's what it costs. About not having the elbow tubes, I tried my best looking and I know my engine doesn't even have a tensioner that those tubes go to.

[Scottydoggs]

watch this vid, then tell me you cant do this yourself, theres really nothing to it. at least you'll have a better idea of where the elbows are and can check them. this is a 10 dollar fix if you fix it your self, takes a hr tops if your a super noob and go real slow.

[Scottydoggs]

you dont need air tools for this job, a 30 dollar 30 piece socket set from home depot or lowes works just for 90% of any work needed on these cars.

[ericspecullaas]

dude run from him now. here is a video showing you how to do this



i bought a gtp from a lady near san francisco the "shop" told her the engine was bad and would cost over 3k to pull and "rebuild" the engine turns out the FUEL pump was bad and took me 1 hour to pull and replace with new pump. the fact he cant find 2 coolant elbows tell me he has no idea what the hell he is doing. run far run fast just dont use him again

[Vincenzo]

ok, i'm running from him anyway because i don't have the money he's asking. Problem is (why i was hesitant):
1. he called Wednesday asking for permission to replace the timing case gasket and see what else is leaking inside and gave his gigantic quote of approximately $1050 (not final, could be more!!) and told me that it will be finished Tomorrow Friday the end of the day. He charges $85 for diagnosis that would be cancelled when repaired there. So, if I go tomorrow morning and tell him I don't have the money, then what do I pay him? I don't know where he's at in the work and it could be really a gasket. Should I just pay him $85 and tow my car back home?
2. I just moved from a house to an apt and in the process, all my stuff (and tools) were kept in one of those self storage places, and it's a lot of work to empty that place and bring all the boxes to my new apt to find which boxes have tools (terrible timing).
3. There is only one parking spot in front of my new home for me and I used it last week the whole week to park a rental car that I had to get cuz I work 25 miles out of town.

I will probably have a bad argument with him tomorrow morning and just bring the car home and keep it to the end of the month when I get paid and then shop around to see who can do it for less than half of what this big garage is asking me.

Thank you guys for the great support

[231FUN]

You don't owe him anything in my eyes seeing he hasn't given you a proper diagnosis and doesn't know what the issue is at this point, not to mention giving you false info.

[SgtMarshal]

there are 3 mechanics in the town I live in. one of them won't diagnose anything, one that will, and a Ford and GM dealership. the dealership charges 110 an hour, and the one mechanic that will diagnose stuff charges 50/hour. the dealership rarely charges the whole 110 dollars to diagnose anything, and when they do, they are 100% confident of the problem. The service manager at the dealership is literally a genius.

such a hazy diagnoses and a huge bill would scare me away from that place. I would avoid them like the plague. find a good mechanic that won't try to fluff you. ask your friends who they go to. when you find 3 or 4 people who vouch for someone, then go to that person and when they say with a surety of what the problem is then you have found your mechanic.

I don't mind paying a premium price for a good diagnoses, because then I can find a cheap mechanic to do the labor, or myself if it is simple.

[Scottydoggs]

go buy a 30 dollar socket set. its now a 40 dollar repair, grow balls, dive in. 40 bucks or 1000? f that 1000 bucks, fuk 500 too.

[Vincenzo]

there are 3 mechanics in the town I live in. one of them won't diagnose anything, one that will, and a Ford and GM dealership. the dealership charges 110 an hour, and the one mechanic that will diagnose stuff charges 50/hour. the dealership rarely charges the whole 110 dollars to diagnose anything, and when they do, they are 100% confident of the problem. The service manager at the dealership is literally a genius.

such a hazy diagnoses and a huge bill would scare me away from that place. I would avoid them like the plague. find a good mechanic that won't try to fluff you. ask your friends who they go to. when you find 3 or 4 people who vouch for someone, then go to that person and when they say with a surety of what the problem is then you have found your mechanic.

I don't mind paying a premium price for a good diagnoses, because then I can find a cheap mechanic to do the labor, or myself if it is simple.

i agree 100% with what you said, but the problem is that i already authorized the diagnosis (and fee) and probably the work (hopefully he hasn't touched it yet tomorrow first thing in the morning even though he said they washed the engine and did a general inspection yesterday).

I'm bringing it home first thing in the morning and i'll try to pay him minimum. I don't know what i was thinking. i will replace the tubes myself and hope for the best. if its not fixed then i'll get a uhaul truck to get all my stuff to my new place and i called a work colleage who agreed to take me to work next week and i'll shop around if i need to, but not soon, because i'm currently close to being broke. i spent a good part of today calling banks and credit unions while avoiding getting hard hits on my credit trying to get out of this but my score was a little over 600 and respectable names think i'm a risk.

i'll offer him a $100 max, worst case, and tell him it's all i got, take it or leave it, and take your "parts" and labor and i will "return to you at the end of the month when i get the dough". my authorization to him was verbal anyway. is there any chance that he won't give me the car if i dont pay him?
i mean i'm already screwed because i told him to start yesterday in the afternoon, right?

[Vincenzo]

watch this vid, then tell me you cant do this yourself, theres really nothing to it. at least you'll have a better idea of where the elbows are and can check them. this is a 10 dollar fix if you fix it your self, takes a hr tops if your a super noob and go real slow.

now i know that he lied to me cuz i just found the aluminum pair of elbows at advance website for $12 and some change and it says "exact fit to yr 2008 ...etc".
thank you sir, this video has exactly what i need to do