Printable View
Mother of all Subwoofers - $145,000.00 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!
Get that...
or this
Hephaestian Midbass [mb01] - $14,549.99 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!
Or...
Tweeter Dimmer - $149.95 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!
and you NEED this...
Violent Bass Air [FART1] - $150.00 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!
When I had my system setup with the 312RS's the most common comment people made were "it needs more bass" The system was setup with a shure mic and a spectrum analyzer and I set it up to be as flat as possible with both windows about an inch down. Dropping the windows seemed to help standing wave a lot. With windows up I just dropped the bass down alittle most of the time.
A few friends thought it was one of the best sounding systems they had heard. It was near flat down to 50Hz with a few dB gain between 30-40Hz. When I swep the 312RS in the box they were very very good from 30Hz to 1200Hz without a crossover. They have a somewhat short excursion and a rating of 350W per coil. But they sound REALLY tight and flat. Theres no comparison between them and your typical Alpine or kicker sub that seems to produce 60Hz and have a steep roll off on both sides.
Wish I still had access to that spectrum analyzer. All the ones we have at work here only do above 100MHz. They do up to 15GHz tho, but totally useless for audio. Also used to have access to a distortion analyzer.
Hate to say it, but flat isn't what you want.
In cars, you have road noise to overcome.
Then you have volume level differences where you need to use loudness correction filters.
If your bass is louder with the windows down you're doing it wrong. :)
Doesn't that mean your box is to small or something stipid like that?? I'm probably wrong but i tried. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by matt5112
No it means its position in your car isn't as good as it should be.
You learn something new everyday... I have a lot more to learn then.
my bass was lower with the windows down. Thats what happens when you eliminate or reduce standing wave.
Standing wave = BOOMY.
Comeon Matt, you should know these things
That means your cabin gain is going out the window... thats all that means.
Standing wave is why you get cabin gain in the first place.
Hence why you can pull off sealed subs in a car.
matt : yes, standing wave would be what you call cabin gain.
Its also what i call Boomy.
my sealed subs were able to produce 118dB loud and clean with the windows an inch down and 240W per sub. Thats all I ever needed.
Ha, if flat is what you call boomy then your taste in music must be very selective. :D
Naa. flat is what I call flat.
Equal loudness curve?
Flat isn't best. I wish I knew the names for different listening curves but flat isn't all that fun and doesn't always appear transparent. Flat sound is awkward to me. Btw, my R12's, measured properly, are flat up through 1000hz :)
Flat is easier to tune towards curves :D
...just make sure the install doesn't screw it up ;P
I800 : btw, i'm building another amp. Gonna build a 50x2 amp to drive the pair of a/d/s spkrs on my desk at work.
And I800 : are you talking about the fletcher and munson curves? I prefer to listen at the proper volume level when possible rather then EQ the hell out of the sound. But thats just me.
This is where me and matt differ...
I really don't know much about Home Audio but in car audio I believe time alignement and R/L EQ are important. However, I do realize that there is a problem with over-processed sound. I perceive the vehicle environment in such a way that it "passively" processes the sound and creates bias dependent on variables that you'd never find inside a home. Unless you're building the vehicle from the ground up I just don't see an affordable solution. There's tricks to reconcile issues here and there but there will never be generic reasoning that can cover all bases. That's why I feel processing is more important in CA vs. HA.
One technique that I believe will add to any vehicle...
Rear fill that is....
- Bandpassed ~300hz thru ~3000hz
- 20ms delay
- R-L signal
- Attenuated to supplement a front stage vs. competing
Oh ya! I have some spare a/d/s/ speakers too :D
Maybe I can copy your application?!
I800 : sure. once its built ill give ya the info. it should be easy to do.
Altho the A/D/S speakers im talking about are made for home use, they are basically car drivers installed into aluminum enclosures made by A/D/S.
BTW, i do remember delay issues when we had a 95 Lumina, bought it from a friend cheap. And no matter what I did the bass was delayed and it drove me crazy. The system we put in it was dirt cheap, infact built for around $500. Openbox infinity reference speakers, an openbox kenwood head unit and a broken infinity powered sub. I forget what the sub was called, but its the $250 one with a passive radiator. I fixed the sub, we put everything in and for $500 i don't think anyone could beat it :).
But no matter what I did the bass was always delayed. Thats a problem i did not have in the truck with the subs right behind the seat. Its also something i'm glad you reminded me about because I couldn't stand that and something needs to be done when I put a system in the GP
and no one goes to get the proper speaker for the job?
you dont look to use certain drivers for the job, you look for speakers that will get the job done, not free up your storage space.
matt : what does that mean exactly?
You have speakers that add delay them selves or something?
and on the storage space note, to alot of people storage is just as important and often more important then sound. My car is not a show car, its a work car. And the trunk will remain 80% empty even after I do work to it for sound.
Well I would actually say that the delay was caused with the sub not blending properly with the mid-bass up front. Many people state that theory will explain why subs do not need T/A. However, I have noticed a difference with mid-bass interaction based on delay.
The reason kick panels are so great is because path length is so important with the wave lengths of ~300hz up to about 1500hz. We want the mids as far from the listener as possible in a vehicle. Another benefit is the proximity of the tweeter to the mid itself allowing it to blend better and create a single point source. This is a must when using passive cross overs imo. In the end, these two advantages takes care of the predominant issues of installing within your vehicle.
There's obviously a whole world of hurt associated with car installs but I'd rather steer away from defraction and reflection issues that are inherent to doors and dashboards. I will say that putting the tweeter as close as possible to a window displaces reflection to the 17khz and above. It changes based on the proximity to the window due to real world wave lengths but it's a quick tip for when looking at tweeter locations.