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right my question is if for example i make 330/400 how would a ic car making the same hp trap faster? regardless of pulley size as long as the hp/tq numbers are the same to stay apples to apples?
also which setup could get away with more timing? i still dont get it and yes i realize what your saying ic maybe cooler but doesnt e85 engine runs cooler than pump gas too.. (hence the better knock killing?)
e 85 is like 105 octane right? thats your kr killer right there, ic makes the intake charge cooler, cooler air is denser, so more air is crammed in the engine. aka more powaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
i get the denser air thats not what i asked the factors being the same and each setup making same hp and tq how is one going to trap any faster regardless of fuel type or ic or not or pulley size?
at the end of the day if X setup makes xxx whp / xxx tq it doesnt matter how you get that result.
plus id dare say an e85 setup would be more consistent and less prone to air temp changes. eventually that ic is going to heat soak too......
i dont see how an ic is any better mod that e85. ive said it a billion times ill say it again the hell with the issues people have with an ic setup id take e85 all day over ic.
if cooling is the concern use some nitrous or meth....
im not asking about using BOTH ic and e85 vs ic alone here.....
i realize 100% the ic would help even on an e85 setup. but if only using one or the other id take e85 all day over an ic.
i know its not end all be im just using it as an example my 330whp/400wtq with mods that cost about the same as an ic.
its going to take more than an ic alone to better those numbers.........
Well yeah if the two setups make the same power, they will be the same in the quarter.
The IC'd car will have the ability to go faster though, since it has lower blower outlet temps.
I'm also not very convinced that our knock sensors are that great at picking up detonation from e85.
Now were on the same page about the IC. Now why would the knock sensor be any different on E85? Ive never seen a blip of KR on mine with a 2.8. I know, I know I really need to data log my car!
i was testing the heatsoak of my full size intercooler yesterday and they actually work pretty well. I remember my stock engine , that supercharger was super hot you cant even touch it. Well now the supercharger sits on top of a 2.5 inch aluminum intercooler. Yes i know phenolic is the best because it doesnt transfer heat from metal to metal. So i go to touch the intercooler core which is pretty hot, not too hot though. You can rest your finger on there for a second or so, then i go and touch the supercharger and it is barely even close to hot. Its a SIGNIFICANT difference having an intercooler.
knock sensors are peizoelectric crystals tuned to a certain frequency range of noise related to detonation.Quote:
Originally Posted by GTPpower
fuel isnt gonna change its sensitivity, only the amount of thread sealant and the sensor tq value do that (NA kr sensors are tq'd higher than L67...aka more sensitive)
your more likely to loose KR sensor effectiveness if you change the piston/chamber design/volume as they are the primary relation to the frequency at which the detonation "pings"
if any of you have heard true spark knock on like an old chevy...you can tell thats one hell of a high frequency sound that shouldnt be there...the kr sensor picks up on em far sooner than we can listen to em.
the higher octane rating of the e85 is the bee's knee's nut even it didnt reduce KR on one local top swapped car...after years of work and changing parts (even swapped out the whole damn engine...nope) ...we changed out the PCM and all the KR went away (down to reasonable levels for 93oct and nothing with a switch to e85)
as you can see...many things can affect your kr
Thanks James for the explination.
Only you would have a pyro meter built into your fingers lol, hell I might as well just say fvck the core and lines and heat exchanger and all the sealing BS and put just a phenolic spacer under my gen5....... Hey! I know maybe drill and tap some holes in it for nitrous or meth........ LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardgainer
Unless every single other option was exhausted would I put a damn ic on a M90 car.
Just giving you hell Dustin....
vet your so in love with E85 you seem to forget we all cant run e85 due to its just not here. if it was readily available we would all be running it.
a ic is the only way you can drop to a real real small pulley on pump gas.
Intercooler was one of my favorite mods back in the day.
e85 is also great to have if its in your area. If it is to where getting it is not a big issue, then its almost a no brainer on switching to it, if you
want the max performance out of the setup without going true race gas.
Some #'s to think about...
10-11 Years ago... ran 13.2's@104 with 3.0", SLP headers/no cat, 3" single out exhaust, rockers, open cone. Stock pcm, cam, heads, blower, tb, blah.
Few years ago, I watched PRJ run 12.34@108 with TOG headers, catback, his own IC design, trans build, e85, injectors/pump, intake. Stock cam,rockers,heads, blower,tb, blah.
So my take on this is.. IC+E85.. plus a good shifting trans too, and tuning.. you can get some damn good results, without a ton invested.
I'm glad i stuck with stock cam and rockers with my intercooler. No need for cam :)
is it true that i can order 42# injectors, install them and run e85 without having to tune? Ive seen it posted on here that since the difference in flow rewuirement between gas and corn is about the same as the difference between the stock and the 42# injectors all you have to do is drain the tank, install the injectors and fill with corn. I realize tuning would always be benificial but could i say run like this for a while until i got a tuner?
A couple of people on here have done it. I'm getting ready to try it that way. I would just recommend having a second car in case it doesn't work well. Or at least be ready to switch right back to premium.
You should change fuel filters too while you're at it.
I did it. Haven't seen a bit of knock since the switch. STFT +/- 1.5. LTFT settled in around 10.
Brandon hall
What sort of pulley drop did you do? im thinking of doing a 3.4 from stock
ive got one place near me that doesnt plan on getting rid of e85 anytime soon, this is my project car, so i have a backup vehicle if it doesnt work, and its onluy $250 with the filter....
seems like a cheap way to make a good 30? whp or more
Think e85 detonates in a different frequency? I see lots of motors that either blow head gaskets or chip a piston/spin a bearing with getting even a blip of kr. But, I can't say I've ever really seen that on 110 or c16. Maybe it's just my imagination. But, I do run it when it's warm, after all, I grow the stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocharged400sbc
And, yes, you can run e85 if you swap 42# injectors without a tune.