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08-18-2008
Well..I was suppose to sell my 2000 GT and get a loan than buy a 01 Jeep cherokee limited, but that didn't happen which pisses me off a little. But since I'm going to keep my car, I figure mine as well make it faster. Supercharging is probably my only option since I don't want to spend the money on a turbo. What are my options for doing this and is it really worth it.
08-18-2008
Top swap, full swap, or SS kit from ZZP.
Top swap is cheapest because you can get all the parts for under 1K piecing it together.
08-18-2008
I looked at the zzp kit but what do you mean by full and half swap?
Last edited by robahr24; 08-18-2008 at 04:58 PM.
08-18-2008
Full swap - Entire motor replaced
Top swap - Heads and up need to be replaced, there is alot of reading required, look through this and the other 3800 forums and be 100% sure you know what your getting into before you attempt this....and 500 - 1000 for parts and 400 - 800 for gaskets/fluids..... and maybe 500 for a tuner if you don't know someone who can tune it for you.....
All in all a top swap, motor swap, or base turbo kit(no injectors, pretty much exhaust,turbo,oil lines, and canned tune) will all be similar in price....
The
Real
Question
Is:
How
Fast
Do
You
Need
To
Go?
Answer that and we can help more
08-18-2008
if you want anything to easily run 12s, just save your money and lump sum a turbo kit. youll make way more power way easier.
otherwise build an l67 on the side if you want something a little more in depth than just a bolt on application.
take your time and learn what youre getting into though. ease of install goes: turbo kit, whole engine swap, then the top swap. its a lot of work.
08-18-2008
A top swap is still on the table, and I'm considering taking a week of leave so I've got all the time I want to do it. Could probably have it done in a couple days, but I don't want to be rushed.
As for 02BlueGT's pricing, most of it's accurate. Though I want to know how he's spending 400-800 on gaskets and fluids.
08-18-2008
A guy I work with has a friend who sells just parts for grand prix's, so I was thinking of just finding a l67 and just swapping it in there. My tranny is slipping too so I will probably get a hd tranny while im at it. I would go with a turbo but spending the money on the engine and tranny already will be quite a bit and I wouldn't have the extra money for a turbo yet. I'll just stick with the supercharger. My goal is too run maybe high 12's with it. What could be done with the supercharger to do that? How big of a pulley with the requirements?
08-18-2008
Running high 12's would be a more costly goal then you are estimating with a s\c. As already mentioned a turbo kit would most likely be the fastest easiest way to do this. With the s/c you would wind up spending more to get in the high 12's then if you get the turbo.Originally Posted by robahr24
You can do allot with your supercharger to make it faster BUT you also need supporting mods so you don't get knock. Many people make the mistake of just dropping pulley sizes from the stock 3.8 but most of the time this will give you knock which will make you slower any way.
If you do plan on the pulley drop [a 3.5" would be step 1] make sure you can scan for Kr. Supporting mods to have little or no Kr with a 3.5" usually include a cold air intake, a downpipes, upgraded pcm, and colder spark plugs. If you still get Kr a Plog or headers should get rid of it.
08-19-2008
Sorry, I meant bolts, gaskets and Fluids:Though I want to know how he's spending 400-800 on gaskets and fluids.
Head bolts $33 or $90
Rocker Bolts $12 or $20
Supercharger Gasket $10
Throttle Body Gasket $10
Thermostat + gasket $10
LIM O-Rings $4
Coolant Elbows $10
Oil + Filter 40 - $50
LIM - $50
Head Gaskets $60 - 130
Coolant $24 - 36
Valve Cover - $20
Supercharger oil $25
Egr Gasket $10
Exhaust manifold gaskets $20
Downpipe Gasket $7
RTV $10
Locktite $10
Anti-seize $10
Supercharger Belt $30
Spark Plugs $15
Wires? $35 - $100
and a few more I probably forgot
Easily $400 +
Trust me I did my topswap about a month ago, Prepare to spend more on bolts/gaskets/fluids than on hard parts.... Above is kind a part list too
08-19-2008
here is what you do:
buy all the parts you need and then spend a month porting a polishing everything. then youll be able to run whatever the hell you want in the means of valvetrain and pulley.
08-19-2008
Thanks for the list. I was just seeing what was running it to high, but nothing I don't have or hadn't thought of.
08-19-2008
i did the zzp kit. check the classifieds for a used m90 and LIM so you save on the core charge, then you can buy the fuel logs and injectors and your good to go
08-19-2008
I know a guy who just traded in his Imp and had most of a top swap ready. He'll cut me a good deal on most of it. He has heads, M90 (which he is finishing rebuilding), fuel rail, injectors, and the MAP. All I'd need is a TB, crank pulley, idlers, coil bracket, and LIM. Little stuff. Most of that I could get from a junk yard or Ed along with some vacuum lines.
08-21-2008
^^^ could never find the VAC lines.....
More I remembered:
L67 MAF
L67 MAF harness $20?
Vac Lines $10 - 20?
TUNE!!!! $?
Plastic scraping tools to remove carbon from Pistons $5-10
24mm socket to turn crank $5
Fuel lines free to $100+
Time, Time and more time,
Search for my Top swap thread, I ported the Throttle and the M90(as much as I could with my limited tools)
08-21-2008
Screw it, I'm just goint to go with a turbo, I know I'm going to want to go faster anyways.
Now to other questions..
I think I'm going to buy a seperate engine for the build. Before I was concerned with money, but I rather make this a nice project. Should I just buy another Gen 2 L36 engine or buy a Gen 3? Will they bolt right up if not I'll just go with the Gen 2.
08-21-2008
The series 2 and series 3 engines are visually the same on the outside. Internally, the series 3 have bigger valves (I think?) and they use powdered connecting rods vs. forged...Powdered ones are much more uniform in their overall material and are technically stronger.
If you can get a good deal on a series 3, then by all means go for it.
08-21-2008
Can you use the L32 rods in a L36 motor, which pistons would I have to change too. And if I'm going to be running around 15psi, what kind of compression should I run?
08-21-2008
^^ It would be more reliable to use a L26 block, you loose some reliability when you open up the bottom end on these motors, they are strong, but picky when they are taken apart/rebuilt
08-21-2008
A L26 would be more reliable then the L36?, i would figure that the only real difference is the bigge valves and rods, that the bottom end is really the same, and swapping in L32 rods would be just as good.
Last edited by robahr24; 08-21-2008 at 11:55 AM.
08-21-2008
You can't use L32 rods with L26 pistons.... The NA pistons are thinner at top, and will be more prone to chipping if you aren't careful.
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