Problems...Imagine that.

TDCRacing · 07-16-2008

I dony know what to say or where to start. Laptop is on the way so i will have more detailed info to come soon via hpt.

The car runs fine at Pt with the occasional hessitation from a stop under medium acceleration. It has once died on me when it did this.At the time I had 2 codes.one was a tps low voltage and the other was a 02 b1 slow switching. I reset the codes and they came back.who would have thought right? heh...anyway....changed out the tps to the stock one vs the one that came with the zzp tb. That got rid of that code. Redid the wiring on the o2 sensor and that took car of that code for like 3 days now.

During the problem with the o2 i saw my 02's basicly just sitting in one spot at idle. wich was around 320ish...didnt have long to look....

actually before i fixed any of the problems i started to have a studdering problem at medium PT to WOT.the car just hesitates and goes no where really.ummm how can i describe it...it shakes when accelerating. Went over to my brothers house since he has a laptop that works and noticed that the rpm's would go up and down rapidly probably in about 50 rpm increasements/decreasements. the o2's would also go to around 980 to 1000. totally not where there suppose to be. I had them tuned at WOT to around 910. and while i was tuning i had no problems with the engine or performance. just a little heasititing every now and then from a stop wich kind of went away.

Things i ruled out.

MAF switched back to the stock one from the LQ$4...same problem.
TPS
IAC-same
IAT- just figured i'd name it so someone less experienced wouldent.
plug wires.

Pulled the plugs and they could probably use a changin. there 104's
checked and made sure sensors were plugged in injectors ect.

No ses light with any new codes. will get a scan and a video of what the car is doing up as soon as my toughbook gets here.

again this problem started one day when i was just cruising around...It did start when the codes were present...but the codes had been there for quite some time before anyof this started.and after they were fixed the problem still wasent.

**Reptile** · 07-16-2008

Misfire?

Put your P0300 code back to reporting and see what she's telling you.

TDCRacing · 07-16-2008

Originally Posted by Reptile

Misfire?

Put your P0300 code back to reporting and see what she's telling you.

Ok im following but wouldnt it come on anyway because of the cam?

**Reptile** · 07-16-2008

Random misfire probably.....but Multiple Misfire under a load is what you're looking for. Dave asked about this code deleting last week and it's affects on diagnosing misfire problems. Sometimes deleting the code keeps it from showing up in a scan...and that's what you're looking for.

TDCRacing · 07-16-2008

ok so im looking more for the ses light to come on when im having the problem?...if it is this what would you suggest? remember that guy that had a gtp down here that was having a problem very similar to this? well his was worse but it felt the same and he was getting a #3 misfire...

**02BlueGT** · 07-17-2008

Coil? if you put back the misfire codes and it is a specific cylinder, start working from there.... Check your FPR and make sure it isn't leaking gasoline into the vacuum line

**UR LOSN** · 07-17-2008

you were just crusing along? you werent ripping on it?

TDCRacing · 07-17-2008

Originally Posted by 02BlueGT

Coil? if you put back the misfire codes and it is a specific cylinder, start working from there.... Check your FPR and make sure it isn't leaking gasoline into the vacuum line

I will check thanks for the input.

TDCRacing · 07-17-2008

Originally Posted by UR LOSN

you were just crusing along? you werent ripping on it?

I swear man LOL. For once i was taking a long drive and trying to save gas ( so no more than like 1/3 throttle the whole way) so i go to give it a little gas to get around someone probably about 2/3 's and it starts doing this...i was like greeeeaaaattt.

**BADAZGTP** · 07-17-2008

Your coil packs are good? When mine went out, as long as I drove normal, it was fine. But to give it more throttle on a big hill or to go around someone, it would start stuttering. Mine seems to be a little worse than yours. I was getting a multiple spark misfire because one whole pack went out. 3&6 i believe it was. Maybe just you #3 side of the coil is going out????

**webracin** · 07-17-2008

I have never had this problem with my Grand Prix, but I did have the same issue with a 3.1L Grand Am.

If you lightly went into the throttle it would go, but if you gave it an more than about 20% throttle, it would start bucking, cutting out, etc and the more you mashed the trottle the worse it got.

Ended up being the O2 Sensor, and no codes were thrown. Might want to check that out since your O2's are pegged.

webracin

TDCRacing · 07-18-2008

Well Looks like it is going to be an o2. Like i said i re-did the wiring on the o2 and the ses light went off but just came back on today. Finially got my laptop so i was able to look at it with hpt and saw that my 02's were just sitting in one spot at idle (didnt bother to look further). So I guess it looks like im gunna go with the denso since everybody seemed to think bosch sucked last time i asked. Well i got 108K miles outta this one. It better fix it or im gunna be PISSED!!!

TDCRacing · 07-25-2008

@@#%$@!........%#$@!##$$%!#!@#.....Well im pissed. O2 sensor didnt fix my problem. Seems like it is a misfire problem. At least i hope it is because i have nothing more to go on. Un- deleated all the misfire codes and I got a ''P0300-misfire detected''(could be from the cam could be from the misfire problem im having) and im also getting a ''P1380-misfire detected-rough road data not available''. Any body know of anything to check with the p1380 code? Going to try to swap out the coil packs tomorrow with a friends. Well see if that works.

The misfire only seems to happen in the higher rpm's and when im heavy into the throttle.

I can ease into the throttle and bring it up to 6000 with out much of a problem. It will still give me a cupple blips though.

I can pretty much drive with heavy throttle up untill around 3500 rpm's....then it starts bucking and misfiring.

Any ideas? I mean the only thing that i see that can do it would be the coil packs. But then again i thought it was the o2 sensor. The o2 sensor does seem to be acting more normal now with how it is suppose to be fluctuating and all. And no o2 codes....YET.

So maybe i fixed one problem...If not I just wasted another 50 bucks on a denso o2 sensor. And yes I made sure I soldered all the wires correctly and heat shrunk them ect.

**BADAZGTP** · 07-25-2008

That's haow my car acted when I had a coil pack go out. as long as I was easy on the throttle, she was fine. But if I got an it a little hard, she'd start sputtering. And that's exactly what I did tho make sure before I spent the money on a new one. I swaped one out with my GT. If it is your coil pack, let me know, I have two extras. And you know the deal with that if you need it.

**BADAZGTP** · 07-25-2008

I found this bit of info. I know it's for a ford, but maybe would roll into what your having problems with. The codes are the same for all cars right?

Starting in 1998, Ford began using variable camshaft timing (VCT) on the 2.0L DOHC engine used in the Contour/Mystique and Escort cars. The purpose of varying the exhaust camshaft timing on these engines is to help reduce emissions similar to the way an EGR valve would, and also to help increase fuel economy. By retarding the exhaust cam timing, some of the inert exhaust gas is left in the cylinder for the next intake stroke. This in turn cools the combustion chamber, reducing NOx and HC emissions. With the VCT, there is no need for an EGR valve, since retarding the exhaust camshaft timing creates the same effect.

The total amount the exhaust cam can be retarded is 30 degrees (60 degrees of crankshaft revolution). The exhaust camshaft has a reluctor ring on it to trigger the camshaft position sensor. The reluctor ring consists of four equally spaced teeth, with one additional tooth in the middle to designate where the TDC is. Sometimes the reluctor ring is called a 4+1.

When the PCM compares the camshaft position sensor signal to the crankshaft position sensor signal, it can then determine where the camshaft is and if it is moving properly when it commands the VCT solenoid to actuate. The VCT solenoid is supplied with engine oil pressure and uses that internally to create a mechanical force to adjust the position of the exhaust cam gear on the exhaust cam.

The cam gear is spring-loaded in the fully advanced position, so if the VCT solenoid becomes damaged or malfunctions, the car will still maintain normal operation and performance. However, if the cam gear mechanism malfunctions, or if the timing belt is installed incorrectly, the exhaust cam can end up in the fully retarded position, giving you the same effect as having an EGR valve stuck wide open ... rough idle, stalling, hesitation on tip in, etc.

Three codes relate to this system: Code P1380 VCT Solenoid Malfunction, Code P1381 VCT Over-Advanced and Code P1383 VCT Over-Retarded.

Code P1380 is strictly related to the electrical circuit of the solenoid, PCM and wiring. If the PCM tries to energize the VCT solenoid and doesn't see any current flow or too much current flow, Code P1380 will set. The normal resistance of the VCT solenoid is 3 to 6 ohms. That resistance should not change by any noticeable amount even with changes in temperature. If the resistance is OK at the PCM connector for the VCT solenoid (measuring from the vehicle power circuit, pin 71 or 97, to the control pin for the solenoid - usually pin 44 or 45), you can also perform an amp draw test on the circuit. With the PCM disconnected, turn the key on. Using a digital ammeter, place the negative lead of the meter on battery negative, and place the positive lead to the control pin for the VCT solenoid. The amp draw should be in the 2 to 4 amp range. Only leave the solenoid grounded long enough to get a reading, preferably no more than one or two seconds. The PCM normally duty cycles it, so leaving it fully grounded for more than a couple of seconds can cause damage to a solenoid that is still in working order.

Here's another test you can do to make sure it is mechanically working: With engine running, using a jumper wire, backprobe the ground side of the VCT solenoid. Then rev the engine up to 2,500 to 3,000 rpm and momentarily ground the VCT solenoid; again, only for one to two seconds. You should hear a noticeable difference in the way the engine runs.

This same test can be performed to help diagnose a Code P1381, which indicates that when the PCM commanded the VCT solenoid to operate and retard the cam timing, it did not see any or enough change. This can be caused by a mechanical problem with the cam gear assembly, a bad VCT solenoid, or a problem with contaminated engine oil. Since the VCT solenoid relies heavily on oil flow to create the force to move the cam gear assembly, anything that causes poor oil flow, such as dirty oil, metal chips or flakes in the oil, can affect how well the VCT solenoid functions.

Code P1383 indicates the cam is too far retarded during its “at-rest” position. The majority of the time when we see this code, it has set because the timing belt was installed incorrectly. Be sure to check the basics ... make sure the cams and crankshaft are in time.

Armed with this information, hopefully the next time one of these cars comes in to your shop you will be able to quickly and efficiently diagnose the problem! Remember, if you need help, we are just a phone call away!

TDCRacing · 07-25-2008

Oh crap lol. I appreciate you taking the time to look that up. Yeah as long as it is an 0bd2 then the codes are the smae to my knowledge. I know what there saying in the article. When you do a case learn on your car what it does is basicly relearn the info about the car. Crank shaft position sensor, cam shaft position sensor ect. You do a case learn because iwhen you put everything back together something can still be a tad off from where it was when you started. Wich could throw something out of wack. The car is going to learn everything on it's own any way. A case learn is just faster. I didnt do a case learn after the cam swap untill this morning and it still didnt fix my problem. Brian is the one who asked me if i ever did one and I decided it was worth a shot for sure. He again was up at 230 in the morning helping me with my problems.

**BADAZGTP** · 07-25-2008

So you still have your problem? Like I said, if it turns out to be a coil pack, I have the two extra.

TDCRacing · 07-25-2008

Yeah still having the problem. I appreciate your offer and may take it if that ends up being the problem. My other buddy with a top swaped gt is comming over today around 5ish to help me swap them out for some good coil packs he has just laying around. So I will keep you guys posted later.