Just because the timing marks line up doesn't mean things are correctly line up. The cam turns twice as slow as the crank, so the timing marks can line up "correctly" twice during the cycle. Verify the TDC of #1 piston just to make sure.
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Just because the timing marks line up doesn't mean things are correctly line up. The cam turns twice as slow as the crank, so the timing marks can line up "correctly" twice during the cycle. Verify the TDC of #1 piston just to make sure.
I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by torq455
Here is what I think you did, and would explane the no start problems.
One thing before I continue, is to make sure that the CAM sensor is installed in the cam gear, and in the correct hole if your running a after marker timing chain set up, as there are many on aftermarket. Though, it looks like your stock if I am not mistaken.
Ok, you basically forced your balancer on, and did no align the balancer to the key pressed in the crank. You pretty much screwed up your balancer, and I wouldn't run it again myself. The key in the crank, I would replace that too. Its called a Woodruff key. Here is what the cutter that makes the groove in the crank, and what the keys look like: (google image search)
http://www.me.metu.edu.tr/courses/me...s/woodruff.gif
You can tap the key out with a flat bladed screw driver, or a punch to be correct, be careful not to damage the crank any more. It will not require a lot of pounding with the screw driver, or punch, and the hammer, and you don't want to pound hard, cause as it was said earlier, the crank thrust bearings will be taking all the abuse inside your engine.
The key goes in the same way it came out. If you cannot locate a key, I have some stock cranks that might still have the keys in them. I would be happy to send you one. The balancer, I would get a used one from ED. Morad Parts Company - 3800 Motors, Transaxles, & Stock Parts
If the little "windows" on the back side of your balancer dont line up how they should, then this can cause a no start/fire. The rest of your engine/PCM doesn't know where the hell the crank is positioned at because of your misaligned balancer. Get this fixed....and you should be good to go.
WHEN YOU INSTALL YOUR BALANCER...
set it on the crank, and gently turn it left or right while gently pushing in till you fell it engage the key. Once you fell it engage, push in more, and give it a tough turn left or right to be sure your engaged on it correctly. THEN install your crank bolt, making sure to add some RTV gasket maker to the back side of the bolt head/flange and to coat the threads of the bolt with your molly lube left over from your cam kit, and hand start the bolt, and run it in by hand, THEN run it in with a impact till the socket stops turning, waiting for the compressor to run, and catch up, building up pressure, then hit it again. The stock speck for the crank bolt is 111 lbs. ft. + 76* I believe. Its freaking over kill. Running it on with a impact like this, your good to go.
DONT just sit the balancer on the crank, and then hammer away with the bolt with the impact with out making sure the balancer is inline with the key. This is what will happen.
Good luck, and let us know if we can be of any more help.
~F~
Wow. Thanks for the awesome reply. Does the front cover have to come off to get full access to the key?Quote:
Originally Posted by GR8racingfool
yes, it does.
Ahhhh it looks like the theory about the HB was right. Glad it's such a simple fix. I also have a spare key or two laying around.
In the assembly of every cam/timing gear job I do, there's a couple things that are constants.
#1. A picture of the dots lining up. If those dots are lined up, your timing is correct.
#2. Always put the balancer on as mentioned by Gr8Racing said. That's the way it's done. Although I don't RTV, lube the bolt. I may start though. It's a good point.
Yeah RTV or loctite is a great thing especially with LS1's. The crank doesn't have a key like the 3800's so they have a bad habit of spinning the bolt and balancer right off the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
I'll buy the balancer today. I hope it fixes it!!!
I'd say you have a good chance. The motor is moving better with the balancer off. The balancer looks like a second keyway was attempted to be made into it. Very likely the timing of the spark was off which caused the occasional backfire and no start.
^What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
We had that problem with a guys car and it drove us batty for 6 months litterally until finally someone suggested looking at the balancer. Sure enough, it was driven on with the key and slot not lined up.
The RTV isn't to keep the bolt on, and there is no need to use LocTite on the bolt either. The RTV seals the bolt to the balancer. If you do not put RTV on the back side of the bolt, engine oil will seep out from behind the bolt, and with the balancer spinning, will fling it. Its not a lot, but enough to make a small mess of things. Thats why the bolt shaft is always wet with engine oil when you first remove it. AND why there is some orange RTV on the back side of it from GM.Quote:
Originally Posted by benner
I use te Permetex Ultra Gray RTV for dam near everything on these engines where RTV is need or added. Only other RTV I use is the copper RTV for the header exhaust doughnuts, but thats for obvious reasons because of the temp.
I have reused my balancer bolt, shoot...probably 2 dozen times. Not kidding here. Its over built for what it is. Ya, its a TTY bolt, but its only been degree once in its life, from the get go by GM. Since then...its reached its torque but never "stretched" again. Same with the flex plate, and torque converter bolts, reused mine countless times I have had things apart, and back together.
I will loctite my flax plate bolts to the crank hands down. I don't recall if I do to the flex plate to torque converter. I think I may just put some anti seize on them. Never had them come loose on me.
Good luck, and glad we all got it figured out for you.
~F~
How the hell do I get the crank sprocket off?
it should slip right off....
It's jammed over the key
could a gear puller work?
this will work so long as you make sure you dont screw up any of the threads. gotta make sure you block everything in so nothing touches where it isnt supposed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5112
Rigged up a valve spring compressor. Got it off. Yay.
GREAT. keep us posted plz and make a vid when u crank it. after all this hard work troubleshooting these guys have done, give them the pleasure of hearing it run ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedwards
Got it hooked up. Started it and I'm leaking greenish tinged oil out of the right side of my engine (near the front cover). Checked my oil, and it also appears greenish color. I am so f*cking fed up.
That sucks!