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05-21-2011
I am planning on doing a major mod to my car pretty soon because i have become bored with my 3.4 pulley set up. I was looking into the xp cam or the ss intercoooler and dropping to a 3.2 pulley. I am gunna get headers and a bunch of other things too but i can decide if i want to cam or intercool. I have a 1997 gtp with 153k on it and 3.4 with supporting modds. So please give me some advice and let me know wat goes into both camming our cars and intercooling them.
05-21-2011
Go with a cam... a cam addresses the issue of the motors lack of flow abilities. It'll allow you to rev higher and drop pullies. An intercooler only makes the super heated air coming out of the blower a little colder. A cammed car will be faster more consistently and you won't need to push high levels of boost through an otherwise stock engine.
Intercool AFTER you get a cam
05-21-2011
Altough an intercooler is much easier to install and does not hinder driveability. That's IMO, though I have neither.
But if intercooling, avoid short stacks and go full size.
05-21-2011
My XP cam doesn't hinder driveability at all. I bumped the idle up about 100rpm, tuned it and it almost sounds like there's no cam. I have a stock stall and I never notice anything different.
05-21-2011
i was leaning towards the cam but i saw how easy it was to interool and it made me wonder but thanks snowflake xp cam it is
05-21-2011
Good choice, IMO you will be faster without an intercooler on the XP than you would be on the stock cam with a full size IC. It really depends on the rest of your setup though. Both choices yield similar power levels.
05-21-2011
ask Brian (reptile) and Nick (bluegtp) how "easy" it is to install an IC...Originally Posted by DukesGTP
IMHO I see the IC being more of a DD mod and the cam being more of a weekender car mod...
each has a pro con though but as said above dont waste your time with the SS IC
I will add though that you WILL need a tune for both of them... you can get away without one for a while longer with the IC but either way youll eventually need it...
05-21-2011
Or just drive without the blower belt off and get away with a tune FOREVA.
But seriously.
Intercooler install blew wang. Especially figuring out how to space the coil pack bracket so the belt would fit correctly. If your daily driving the car...an intercooler is totally bolt on and doesn't require ANY forms of valvetrain work...although I'd seriously consider installing a cam while the motor is IN the car vs. doing another full size IC. Gains to be had? With a correct tune and pulley drop...I'd say your going to be way more torquey with the IC setup...the cam is going to want headers...no way around that. Moving much more air than a stock bumpstick, that's more work and at that point it would be easier to yank the motor out totally IMO. You also with an intercooler have a better chance at combating knock with the MUCH cooler setup (temperature pun intended lol)...buddy of mine ran a 3.2" on a car that just had a 3" bolt-in DP with an SSIC on his '97. Knock free with a custom tune...I'm sure with injectors and rockers he would have had even more headroom, maybe a 3.0" or a 2.9". I do recommend getting injectors if your getting a custom tune...with a full size IC you'll be running injectors static quick dropping pulley sizes...but I's start with a 3.2"...I think Jarred up there ^^ started with a 3.1" and pulled it off...but soon after upgraded.
Last edited by blueguy; 05-21-2011 at 02:20 PM.
05-21-2011
I maintain that the OP's car will be faster with a cam than an intercooler. What Ron Vogel did has no relevance to the OP's car.
A cam is just the healthier choice if you have to pick one or the other. To make the kind of power that a cam will hit with an intercooler you have to push a lot of boost. It makes more sense to address the lack of flow through the motor than to band aid the blower.
05-21-2011
Agreed, I say do both but if you can't do it at the same time, cam then ic
05-23-2011
Man you guys are really making me start to think and doubt buying an intercooler next. Im saving up for it and was gonna xp cam later. Hmmmmmmm......
05-23-2011
I didn't read the whole thread, but yes you will potentially make more power with a cam. The thing to keep in mind is the guys who want to do these mods but do not have a tuner across the street or in the same town. You don't just throw a cam in the car in a day and then the next day run 12's. You need more time spent on tuning a cammed car than you do an IC'd car to get the same drivability and reliability. Part of that is the cam's ability to make more power, more things have to be looked at or done to make sure nothing may happen 6 months down the road. An intercooler should be considered a big bandaid or something that all m90's should have came with stock. Some people may argue it's not that bad to daily drive a cammed car, but the majority will get sick of it at some point.
Intercooler will come at a larger price, but it is something that you can put on and all it will do is help you. Very easy to tune and most can drop down to a 3.2" pulley no problem, much further than that and you need larger injectors. You don't reduce drivability or move your powerband much if any and you can get your blower to really scream without touching the bottom end. We had a s2 ic on a friends stock regal, i tuned it for maybe 45 min one day and that was it, ran a 13.6 at the track with full weight including subs/amp. Wanted to tune it some more but we ran out of injector. Another car I tuned had 1.9's and a SSIC, never ran at the track but the butt dyno said 12's and that car also ran out of injector otherwise would have made more power.
If I had to do another car, I would get both at the same time... lol But if I had to choose I would go with the intercooler first, mess around with that and then if i wanted to get serious i would cam it. Much easier to demod and sell a f/s intercooler than it is to do the same and get the same money back with a cam.
05-23-2011
started with a 3.0 but the stock injectors didn like me... put the 3.1 on and knocked a little during the winter and that was it... now i gots the 60s so no more issue there...
05-23-2011
honestly my i/c was harder to install than the cam
stock trans? xp cam will eventually eat the input shaft
05-26-2011
I am in the same predicament. I can't decide between an intercooler or cam. I can't afford both... I already have 1.9's, so I may go with the intercooler with a ported blower and drop to a 3.2. I drive my car a lot throughout the year, except for winter because I have another vehicle. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
05-28-2011
That'd what I'm about to do. Intercool the car and drop to a 3.2 pulley.
05-28-2011
IC and timing FTW
06-07-2011
I think its tit for tat....Ive debating to IC or cam myself, and Ive heard once you start digging that deep into the motor, you asking for future problems,,,Im think IC.
06-07-2011
Maybe if you don't know what your doing...
06-07-2011
I went with an I/C first, mostly due to my lack of advanced mechanical ability last May. 9 months later, I tossed in my X-P. If you plan to daily drive & don't want the vehicle downtime, do the IC. If you plan to race and can spare time without driving the car, do the cam. I will say though, that the cam made me smile wider, than the IC ever did.
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