Thread: Intercooling Options

Originally Posted by gtpforever

Tool?

You got shut down in simple debate.

On your own forum you did okay.

My understanding is that you failed to bring compelling evidence to support the effectiveness of the core you presented. The lowered cost relative to the other vendors is as of yet unexplained which raises concerns considering the thrasher was still two grand when they stopped selling it.

WBS guy flat out states he's not concerned about this interrupting his sales.

Originally Posted by saleenprix

damn.

I bet you're the same guy who'll quote 10+ pics to say "AWESOME!"

Originally Posted by gtpforever

Just another quick post here to inform some of the readers about anything where someone is saying the IRC core might not work. There are some things being tossed around and only part of it is true to what is said...........
ZZP is the best out according to their testing. They have tested against everything on the market about 8 years ago they were actually #2 and admitted it cause the Thrasher bar & plate design was WAY ahead in the cooling department by some 20%+ over the 2nd place ZZP core. ZZP stated that they and no one else for that matter would probably ever go the bar and plate route due to the cost to make it at the time. The Thrasher core was something like $2500+ I guess so I can see why.
PRJ uses the same design but in a slide out removing design and has yet to be tested. It is cheaper then the Thrasher by some $1500 for the core.

Will respond to this one shortly.

So on this page here:

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5389351

Someone who is NOT you says the Thrasher is 15* cooler than the ZZP.

ZPP claims 144* temp drop so the thraser system is 10.4% "bettered" than the ZZP.

Originally Posted by gtpforever

The IRC can be made the exact same thickness as any of them for WAY less cost then people are paying and is far more efficient.

Proof of statement? NONE, thanks guy.

Originally Posted by gtpforever

The cores made of bar and plate do not need to be as large as the tube and fin to do the same cooling.

Proof of testing on platform? NONE. Again thanks.

Originally Posted by gtpforever

This helps us in more ways then one. Weight being the main extra difference that most overlook. Its not tons of weight but at leased its something. LOL!

the weight of my car changes by a lot more than 3 lbs depending on how much gas in there. It is NOT even worth bringing up. The air gap idea is the main advantage to this core... not the weight.

Originally Posted by gtpforever

The cost of the IRC complete kit can be had for about the same as the PRJ core alone which is great savings. The small group buy on gtpworld is not a huge savings but its $100 off of what he normally charges so I feel its a good deal.

Feelings dont help me go faster.

Science does.

Originally Posted by gtpforever

So many ask why there is no where making stuff for our cars but yet when a place does things like what happened on clubgp with me getting banned for something stupid is why places don't want to deal with it.

You dont seem too banned.

Originally Posted by gtpforever

Most don't realize what clubgp charges for vendors and its outrageous. Farnsworth got kicked cause of it and wbodystore told me the cost and I about **** its just nuts to think that the forum that has not been updated in so many years thinks they should make a killing from members and or vendors. That site generates over $1300/mo which some people wish they made themselves. That is todays figures and back in the hay day it was $3K-$5K/mo. But yet has not been updated. Most try to say it cost money to run it cause of servers and so on but the servers are ran through Mikes day time job so he has no cost of running or any kind of overhead on that site so think about that for a while.
Not that any of this I/C stuff has anything to do with clubGP but just wanted to straighten a couple things out cause of me being a tool.

No **** they're a business. Who isn't?

Never once did I see a mod come in and take action against you.

I am not even going to come close to asking why in the hell you quoted so many things in which when you read the whole thing actually you are with me for the most part other then I have not done a crap load of testing from my end when I have nothing to do with the IRC innercooler. I just own a forum not the innercooler. I don't see the need to do the research for you or anyone else but all that is needed is to do a little bit of searching for yourself and you will see that bar & plate is better for innercooling in just about every way but one and that one is that the flow is less going through the innercooler core compared to the tube and fin. Difference from that is null considering that the slower air going through means more timing and a smaller pulley can be added for more HP. Just do some research you will be surprised at some of the things you will find out.
Hell you don't even think I was banned from clubGP for some reason and it shows right here...........
ClubGP Message Forum troubleshooting

I know allot of this seems to hard for you to completely comprehend right now cause it appears that you have blinders on sort of like a horse does at the track so you are only seeing the one thing you want in front of you instead of seeing the big picture right now. Nothing against you cause allot of people seem to get that way over time and its hard to break them off of it.

I never got shut down in a simple debate as that would mean that I have never replied with anything back after I was debated but yet I came back with the same stuff over and over. If you read the whole hidden post of which I don't think you have access to you might see that but since the mods have hidden it to keep it out of the fray then how can you have the whole idea what what is going on? I am not sure what you are looking at tho cause the stuff I am referring to getting into it with wbodystore is in a now hidden thread.

This is from that same thread you posted from clubGP which is the second post made by someone about this IRC I/C the one you posted is the second one and not the one I got banned from.

ORIGINAL: gtp tim
Im just pulling the info that i have seen off of his post on HIS forum(the guy u guys banned)! Why dont guys just ask the guy u banned about it?

And this one is from that same thread but was from wbodystore..........

Because it cost $1500 more than ZZP IC when it was available. When you do modifications like this you need to consider what you're getting for your money. If you can get 90% of the performance of the Thrasher IC for less than half the price that's a deal 99% of people will make which is pretty obvious considering Thrasher's demise.

So if you go by that and why he said that the ZZP core was better then why in the world wouldn't you think that having a bar & plate one that is lets say a good ballpark estimate of 90% of what ZZP does for a minimal of 1/2 the cost then why not? LOL! I mean I really don't see why some don't see this. LOL! PLUS you can make it to what ever thickness you want for better cooling to then still be less then 1/2 the cost again. I don't need to test this as the bar & plate was already proven to do better by ZZP themselves but was to pricey then but it is not anymore.

Weight being the main extra difference that most overlook. Its not tons of weight but at leased its something. LOL!

the weight of my car changes by a lot more than 3 lbs depending on how much gas in there. It is NOT even worth bringing up. The air gap idea is the main advantage to this core... not the weight.

Nice that you brought up something else like that cause I never really took it into consideration but please don't act as if I was only talking about the weight it was just something that I brought up as allot of people are weight cutters for the track to some crazy extremes and I am sure you know that. LOL!

No **** they're a business. Who isn't?

Never once did I see a mod come in and take action against you.

I will start with the business part since I to run the same sort of site. I do not charge my members for anything other then raffles, and calenders. They are free to donate to the forum if they want to also but that doesn't happen to much.
I don't charge vendors either which is a ton of clubGP's money intake right now. Also the adds they have of which allot have figured out you can avoid them by not getting your mouse over the works on the pages with the red lines under them. Its an add service that pays clubGP's owner anywhere from .15 to .25 each time it shows up. I had thought at first that it had to be click but it doesn't according to the service that does it.
I know allot of this falls on def ears but its what 98% of the members over there are pissed about which is that money is made but nothing is done with the site to update it. Business or no business they need to take care of the members.

As for the not taking action against me that is something I am completely pissed about even though you are probably referring to the thread you posted which is not the one I was banned from and you can't see I don't think. In the first thread I have been referring to I was never confronted by any mods or admins at all period. I never even got a warning in my PM in which is their rules it states that they will warn a poster one time through PM and then after that they will be banned. I never got any kind of warning or message from anyone in the upper rank of clubGP so I do find it kind of ironic that they put on my profile that I wasn't following forum rules but yet they were not following the rules either by not warning me. Just a little messed up. LOL!

Just another quick post here to inform some of the readers about anything where someone is saying the IRC core might not work. There are some things being tossed around and only part of it is true to what is said...........
ZZP is the best out according to their testing. They have tested against everything on the market about 8 years ago they were actually #2 and admitted it cause the Thrasher bar & plate design was WAY ahead in the cooling department by some 20%+ over the 2nd place ZZP core. ZZP stated that they and no one else for that matter would probably ever go the bar and plate route due to the cost to make it at the time. The Thrasher core was something like $2500+ I guess so I can see why.
PRJ uses the same design but in a slide out removing design and has yet to be tested. It is cheaper then the Thrasher by some $1500 for the core.
The IRC can be made the exact same thickness as any of them for WAY less cost then people are paying and is far more efficient. The cores made of bar and plate do not need to be as large as the tube and fin to do the same cooling. This helps us in more ways then one. Weight being the main extra difference that most overlook. Its not tons of weight but at leased its something. LOL! The cost of the IRC complete kit can be had for about the same as the PRJ core alone which is great savings. The small group buy on gtpworld is not a huge savings but its $100 off of what he normally charges so I feel its a good deal.
So many ask why there is no where making stuff for our cars but yet when a place does things like what happened on clubgp with me getting banned for something stupid is why places don't want to deal with it. Most don't realize what clubgp charges for vendors and its outrageous. Farnsworth got kicked cause of it and wbodystore told me the cost and I about **** its just nuts to think that the forum that has not been updated in so many years thinks they should make a killing from members and or vendors. That site generates over $1300/mo which some people wish they made themselves. That is todays figures and back in the hay day it was $3K-$5K/mo. But yet has not been updated. Most try to say it cost money to run it cause of servers and so on but the servers are ran through Mikes day time job so he has no cost of running or any kind of overhead on that site so think about that for a while.
Not that any of this I/C stuff has anything to do with clubGP but just wanted to straighten a couple things out cause of me being a tool.

Originally Posted by matt5112

I make an honest mistake then.

I made the assumption that GTP1977 was you.

For that I apologize.

And for calling you a tool.

I dont doubt its a better construction method, I doubt the application. If theres no bench testing to see just how effective it is compared to the competition then its throwing money at something without knowing if its going to work or not.

I'd love to have that IC core because of the air gap-esque design and the bar and plate core but its unproven in our application. Thus I'll prolly end up with a WBS IC unless someone tests this one and a few others before I buy in the spring.

Summary: The concept works yes, but this guys cores are untested in FWD 3800's thus I will refrain.

I am sort of with you but also sort of lost at the same time which sometimes happens with me trying to read. LOL! The bar and plate design was already proven to work VERY well for our applications but was to pricey for people to buy when it was proven to be the best out in the Thrasher design. Same design just in a smaller model as it sits. They can be made any way that the buyer wants them to be made and at a VERY cheap price. The reason we can get it so cheap is because of the fact that Marty the guy who makes them is the owner of IRC and since he does all of the work himself there is no overhead kind of price jacking that gets done like when you go to other vendors cause the other vendors are paying a place to make them.
I know that everyone wants side by side bench testing or what ever else but it just isn't going to happen with guy at this point since he doesn't have any of the other I/C's to test it against. I sure am not going to buy others just to do testing just so others feel like it makes sense to go ahead and get one. LOL! Hey if you know anyone that wants to give up their I/C's for any certain period of time then let them know I want their I/C and that I would have no idea when it would be returned. LOL! See thats the upside to ZZP testing cause they had the I/C's on member cars to do the testing.

I really don't know what to tell people when they want testing cause no testing has ever been done that is what most would call reliable since the only place that has done the testing is ZZP in which means the are bias to the results and how they come out. For all anyone knows they were not the best cooling drops at all which sucks to think about it that was but it very well could have happened.

Originally Posted by matt5112

The thrasher application of bar and plate worked well but we have no idea how marty's cores work in our cars.

Thats what I'm saying.

Well to find out that right now the only thing I can tell you or anyone else is that William Stewart and Htown se are the ones running it on their cars currently. Rodney who is htown se was supposed to get a dyno shortly after he installed it blew his trans shortly after the install so it didn't make it to the dyno but it is up and running now and I am not sure when he is going to the dyno now.

Originally Posted by matt5112

I'd need to see someone do 3 pulls with marty's core after the engine is fully heat soaked and another three with say a ZZP or WBS core.

Also: monitoring I/C coolant temps would be useful as well.

But i'd like to see his dyno regardless.

It would need to be independent I know that. To much of the "well ZZP already tested everything before" any time an I/C comes about. Like the guy that was making an I/C out of laminova (sp) cores, he got jumped on left and right about how it doesn't work for what ever reasons. Independent is the way to go on the testing tho.
I found out from William Stewert that he was going to be getting coolant temps when he finished his I/C stuff cause as of right now he has the IRC core but uses a ZZP FMHE so he is going to be going with a custom FMHE from IRC and doing temp measurements at that point.

Thinking of that where is the best place to set up temps readings for an I/C? I asked William and he said he is not sure where most do it but he was going to measuring at the FMHE cause of his set-up. Not sure why that is but it did make me wonder where the best place actually is.