Thread: Thinking about tearing down the engine

Ive been giving this some thought lately and kinda getting more serious about it. The main reason I would tear it down would be just to have the block and rotating assembly cryo treated.

I already have it on the books so to speak to do the heads, whether it be the current ones or a set of spares if I can get my hands on a good set. So its not many more parts to break down the block and do that as well. My concern is I am terrified of this concept, mainly because of the lack of knowledge on my part.

Simply put, Ive never had this opportunity before, never done this kind of work before and Im at an age that I want to experience this having missed out on it in my younger years. Furthermore, Ive been studying, reading about cryo treating for a few years now and am convinced of its benefits and the 3800 provides me the nearly perfect platform in which to do this on with the availability of parts both OEM and aftermarket. The only platform I could see being better would be an SBC.

Ive gotten past my concerns with doing the heads, that is pulling them off and reinstalling them. I was seriously concerned with getting them to seal back up as they should, but the general consensus seems to be as long as you torque them down correctly and in the proper sequence it should all be good. So either way, the heads are coming off and getting treated and then I'll install my new lifters, pushrods, springs, seals, roller rockers, etc.

So the point of all this is to find info on how to do this. Are there any detailed write ups on rebuilding or tearing down and putting back together a 3800? What input do you all have that have experience with this? What tools am I going to need? What additional work (for instance, honing, etc) will be required once I break everything down? For instance, I have no clue how to prime the oil pump.

I have a daily driver, so time is not necessarily an issue so I can do things and buy stuff as needed as funds are available. My view is I have an opportunity to carry out some ideas I believe are valid and worth doing as well as gain the experience of having gone completely through an engine in my life. I dont like being afraid of doing things when it comes to cars and I want to do this and get past that.

So if you have some experience in doing this I would appreciate your insight. I know people like Brian and James have done this so Im hoping to hear from each of you and anyone else that can get me on the path of information that will dispel the concerns I have from a lack of information/knowledge.

Its a long essay I could write you on this subject.

There are a few special tools you might need besides a vast selection of your basic mechanic tools that will for sure be needed. Also depends on how your building your engine, and what for, such as what are your goals with it, will factor on what special tools you will need.

Before you even start, I would start searching your area for a respectable machine shop that feels comfortable doing work on these motors. Many are small block, and big block engine builders and don't even want to mess with 4 or 6 cylinder engines. Many don't even know what these motors are, and what they go in and keep on calling them a Buick V6 from a Grand National. I got that a lot, and thats about the time I walked out the door and kept looking.

On that note, there is only 2 shops that did any work on my motor when I was building it. 1 shop did the block prep work, such as decking, honing, and line boring and installing the cam bearings. The other shop balanced my rotating assembly 50% for me. The rest of the work I did myself.

I know one book that EVERY FREAKING MEMBER OR OWNER OF A GRAND PRIX SHOULD BUY THAT WOULD SAVE THEM TIME ASKING QUESTIONS AND SEARCHING FOR THEM INSTEAD OF POSTING THEM AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN IS GO TO YOUR LOCAL AUTO PARTS STORE, SUCH AS O'REILLYS AND BUY A FREAKING CHILTONS MANIUAL.

I'm not shouting at you...just wanted everyone to see that, and know that, and live by that. Anyone who works on their car, inside and out, should own this book. Even if you think you know it all, there is somethings you might not know, and its good to refer back to the book when in doubt on something. It may not be 100% accurate with GM's specks on things, but it pretty damn close on specks, and it has pictures too! It will cover everything from emissions, electrical, and motor, from service and repairs to OVERHAUL and rebuilding. Right up your alley. Step by step stuff in this book, and worth its weight in gold.

I suggest getting that book, and reading/looking through it, and then see, and feel how comfortable you are with taking on this job.

If you can understand 80% of it, and do the work in your head as your reading, I think you would be confident enough to handle the job. Through...it does take somebody thats mechanically inclined to do the work well, so once its done, it does not grenade, or start throwing copper into your oil.

I had my fair share of the cooper in the oil pan on these engines after a rebuild, but I know what NOT to do now to make it a successful build. Many keep trying and trying...and still have no luck. One vendor comes to mind.

There are literately 100 things you can over look, that really matter on these engines...which makes them a hit, or a miss when its done.

I have rebuilt small engines such as lawn mowers etc. and then larger engines such as 2.0's, 2.2's, 350's, & 403's to name a few and never had a learning curve on an engine till I got to one of these 3.8's. Lots of little things about them for sure. But I can help you with all I have learned.

~F~

Excellent Farns. I do have a Haynes manual. It is among if not the first thing I purchase when I buy a car. When I got the Rodeo, I drove it into town and stopped off at the parts store and picked up a Haynes manual. Did the same for the wifes Jeep. I bought the GP and just a couple days later drove to Florida, but once down there I picked up a Haynes manual for it.

So I agree with you there on having those, they are good for starter information and step by steps. I guess I just didnt realize they had rebuild/tear down info in them cause I never really paid any attention to it since I got them more for general maintenance and the wiring diagrams.

I worked in a machine shop for a few years as their electrical/electronic technician and I was trained in electronics but while I worked there they trained me on machining and I got pretty comfortable in using end mills, lathes, micrometers and stuff like that. Though I have never used any of the automated stuff. So Iam completely comfortable with that sorta thing.

My main concern with tearing into the engine is just that its something I have never done before. More to do with the unknown than anything.

Haynes are great manuals! I'd buy those over Chiltons because they are more accurate.

I think you could handle it pretty easily. I know your a smart cookie, and with that back ground behind you, of things you can do or used to do, this will be almost second nature to you. Tear down is easy, so I guess pay attention to how it comes apart. its getting it back together correctly and cleanly is the tricky part. Lots of measuring, and making sure surfaces are clean so you don't have any leaks are two of the biggest things more than anything. I freaking hate leaks because of a faulty part, or shady service. Biggest pet peeve there of mine. LOL.

~F~

^Thats what I hear...it it don't fail soon after start up, you have 10,000 miles or less before it will. LOL

~F~

Cool. Well keep the suggestions coming. You guys have probably seen the pics of my bonzi tree called the engine bay harness. Everything on there is labeled. I pulled the start off over the weekend, wanna guess whats on it and what it says? Yeah, maybe overkill, but it reinforces the habit.

So what special work will I need done? When I pull the crank, what needs to be done to it if anything before its reinstalled? What about the pistons, connecting rods, wrist pins and so on. Ive read a bit about clevite bearings, should I grab some of them? If so, where all do I need to use them at? Stuff like that.

What can I do to give everything more durability or longer life. Are there parts, pistons, rings, stuff like that that are better and more durable than OEM?

rebuilts aren't to hard i remember when my buddy rebuilt his 98 Mustang GT, now that was a pain in the ***, specially whenever he wanted to but a stage 2 cam in it, gotta love those Modular Motors

Are you rebuilding it just to rebuild it when there is or is not any need to?

Or are you rebuilding it to add after market internals etc. ?

I have Clevite bearings through out in my engine.

Crank, rods, and cam.

I bought all my goods from INTENSE in a package deal, and Scott cut me a break on my order buying everything at once from him.

~F~

My main purpose in tearing the motor down is not to rebuild it. Its so I can get everything cryo treated. That said, however, there is no sense in tearing it down and not adding aftermarket stuff to it. But the only aftermarket internals I know of are diamond coated pistons. But, I would like to add L32? powdered connecting rods I believe it is. I believe or have read that their connecting rods are stronger than the L67's?

Im not really interested in using an aftermarket cam, but if I could get my hands on a really low mileage one then I would go that route. Other than that, Im not sure what to do other than to install Clevite bearings. My engine has never showed any elevated wear on oil analysis, so its in decent shape and I would like to keep it that way and the cryo treatment would definitely help that.

Ive never looked at Intense for anything really and that is more due to the fact I came into the community around the height of their Gen 2 LSD mess and was heavily steered away from them. But Im not opposed to buying from them, so dont take it that way, I just never have because I have not had need to.

So thats it in a nut shell. If I were to go by the oil analysis, the engine is in fantastic shape and doesnt need any work other than just general maintenance stuff like the timing chain which would be easier out of the car anyway. I just have some fuel economy and durability goals in mind in which the cryo treating is going to help me get there. My original intention was just to do the heads as I have been studying some tricks and such to get some more fuel economy from certain work being done to them but I see no point in having the engine out and not doing it all.

Honestly, unless you're tearing it down for something specific (larger pistons, L32 rods) I wouldn't touch it. The factory bottom ends seem to last longer than builds and they're quite strong. Also, as far as you're going with this, get a Helms manual set. I did before I went through with my engine swap and the electrical schematics themselves were priceless.

When I build mine from the block up, I had everything balanced so I am good for 7k RPM+ spins easy and removed the balance shaft.

I went with L32 rods, ARP rod bolts, ARP main bolts, Clevite bearings through out, Diamond 9:5.1 coated forged pistons, STANDARD bore, File to fit piston rings, Intense Stage 3 heads, MLS gaskets, the thin ones, Intense Stage 3 cam, originally OE-R lifters, but yanked them out after 3K miles and went with some used low mileage Comp. G lifters, Intense O.R. push rods, 1.7 adjustable roller rockers to name a few of the big ones. This year I pulled out my Roll Master double roller, and bought a new one, and had the back side of the crank gear machined as it should be for our 3800. The one I pulled was still fine, and still use able, after it gets machined correctly.

Pictures of my build:
Before:






This was the original motor from my car when I bought it. It was a '97 with 58K miles on it. The water pump failed causing the motor to over hear and seize totaling the car. I bought the car as it sat, with a bad motor, and installed a new 1999 Motor with only 7 miles in it and drove that for a year, then I was rear ended and the car totaled again. I rebuild the car, and thats how it looks today with the looks etc. About 3 years later, in late 2004 is when I started building my motor after I saved up a hefty sum.

If I had to do it again...I would buy a good low mileage L32 short block because of the raised compression and put good parts on that, and run it till its dead. You will save a ton doing it that way. Plus not have to worry about a "touched" bottom end, cause its VERY difficult to get a bottom end as close to factory specks with out the bearings throwing copper at you doing it yourself, or having an over priced shop do it, and even then...you have about a 10% chance of doing it as good as the factory IMO. Just the fact of life right there.

During and after:







and the second tear down to correct some problems with the first build:

such as:

for example.

I also installed the Intense revised roller rocker pedestals as well.



and removed my GenIII and put on the first ever fully polished GenV



some of it being reassembled:


ran the aluminum LIM gaskets this time, cause when it was first built, these were not out yet.







For me, it was a learning curve on all the little trucks needed to be done to do it right when compared to other engines I have built. If you have ever built and engine before, then this is a walk in the park, after you learn all the little things you need to do to avoid a quick failure. I didn't know it all when I built mine, but soon learned quick after it was built and running the first time, and took it apart quick only after 2200 miles before I really messed things up. Now all is well to this day, though...I'm getting a new supercharger in a month or so.

I'm sure we can walk you through a build, but through I would share those pictures with ya, so you know what to expect.

~F~

Well crap, you can probably expect to be bugged by me a little then.

Did you replace your freeze plugs? If so, where do you get those at? How do you get them out and put them back in? Also, how did you keep the parts of the block that shouldnt be painted from being painted? You went with the color I want to, a silver or aluminum color.

Id love to go with Diamond pistons, but good Lord those things are expensive.

Okay, cool, I just never saw/heard of freeze plugs being replaced. But if its something I can take care of while the engine is out, why not.

I questioned the painting because if you look at Farns' block, it has the front main seal outline perfectly on the block and the are it sits is all unpainted. Im assuming he probably taped it all up and then put the cover on it and cut out the excess.