LADIES! I present...

**Scimmia** · 02-05-2010

Originally Posted by matt5112

So extending all of the wires equally which is the same as using the harness, is not the same because the O2 sensor generates the voltage through the difference of O2 levels.

Do you see my point here? What if you extended the wires BEFORE the factory connector.

The wires have to be extended, so no matter where you do it... it'll still be longer.

I realize it compares, but it doesn't do it through the wires that connect to the PCM...

I see your point, but you're totally missing mine. It DOES get it's sample through the wires that connect to PCM. If you screw with those wires, you can alter/impair their ability to get the air sample to the O2 sensor.

**badbrad** · 02-05-2010

technically, too much solder and/or crappy tin connectors will change the resistance in a reading....just got thru with this crap in biomed schooly .....i used gold plated butt spice and thats all ...valid truth of course but dont over analyze it.. thats it. just don't do **** like a dude i kew and have 3 spliced up connections

**gtpinsc** · 02-05-2010

Originally Posted by Scimmia

I see your point, but you're totally missing mine. It DOES get it's sample through the wires that connect to PCM. If you screw with those wires, you can alter/impair their ability to get the air sample to the O2 sensor.

if all this is true, how can they sell universal o2's? the wires on the ones i have seen are far longer than a OEM replacement.

**Scimmia** · 02-05-2010

Originally Posted by gtpinsc

if all this is true, how can they sell universal o2's? the wires on the ones i have seen are far longer than a OEM replacement.

Longer is fine, shorter is not. From what I understand, the sample actually comes through the insulation of the wire. If you cut and solder it, you're blocking that path, so the only air you could get would be through the part on the sensor side of your splice, which is far shorter than stock.

**badbrad** · 02-05-2010

dude^^^

..air does not penetrate the insulation on the wires...we're working in millivolts here. adding smaller wire or lots of crappy solder, or using cheap a$$ connectorsmakes another form of resistor.. resistance is what the o2 works with. best thing to do if u lengthen it is to get 1 piece of wire and use a good quality butt splice connector, like a gold plated one.. it does not matters where the splice/lengthening of wires occur..sorry to bust on u but i have recently went thru crap like this at school in the labs.

**Scimmia** · 02-05-2010

Originally Posted by badbrad

dude^^^

..air does not penetrate the insulation on the wires...we're working in millivolts here. adding smaller wire or lots of crappy solder, or using cheap a$$ connectorsmakes another form of resistor.. resistance is what the o2 works with. best thing to do if u lengthen it is to get 1 piece of wire and use a good quality butt splice connector, like a gold plated one.. it does not matters where the splice/lengthening of wires occur..sorry to bust on u but i have recently went thru crap like this at school in the labs.

Go ahead and "bust" away, you're just digging your own grave. Are you seriously claiming that insulation cannot be made gas permeable? This isn't just something I'm pulling out of my ass, it's information that's been around for many, many years and written into countless service manuals.

Oh, and resistance isn't what the O2 sensor works with. It actually creates voltage.

**badbrad** · 02-06-2010

oh ok, u can win. on all the equipment and crap i work on, the insulation is not there for air to pass on. air/gases etc. goe thru the sensor. yes electricity is carried thru the wires. resistance is a measurement, hence wire diameter. i didn't have to write a manual to post some of the funny stuff u stated...how the heck does solder "block the path" goe to school and study this stuff...why over analyze this. don't get your feather ruffled. i know what i know--and my stuff and my way works, if it doesn't, i'm man enough to say "hey , i don't know". But for arguments sake....u win, ok?

**matt5112** · 02-06-2010

Originally Posted by Scimmia

I see your point, but you're totally missing mine. It DOES get it's sample through the wires that connect to PCM. If you screw with those wires, you can alter/impair their ability to get the air sample to the O2 sensor.

So the PCM is calibrated for the exact length of wire leading to the O2 sensor?

So when I buy a harness that extends this wire, i'm still changing the length, i'm still changing the resistance but i'll be okay because I used the right product to do it?

So you're saying this:

https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_...=357&catid=108

Is specially designed wiring for use with an O2 sensor?

Better yet... you're saying the wire delivers the air sample to the O2 sensor?

Copper doesn't deliver air samples... It oxidizes over time, but it doesnt move O2 particles.

**05grandprixgt** · 02-06-2010

can these be emisson legal in ca ?

**gtpinsc** · 02-06-2010

is any mod legal in cali.. lol

**matt5112** · 02-06-2010

Originally Posted by 05grandprixgt

can these be emisson legal in ca ?

Don't you have to run a cat that was specifically designed for your car?

If so... i'm not so sure...

**offroadfury6** · 02-06-2010

so subscribed to this thread

**gtpinsc** · 02-06-2010

got mine installed on engine, engine not in car. but they seem to fit well and look pretty

**offroadfury6** · 02-06-2010

Originally Posted by gtpinsc

got mine installed on engine, engine not in car. but they seem to fit well and look pretty

lol well dont forget to update us when it all gets thrown together bro

**vailskier3** · 02-06-2010

yeah, count me in for these if they fit an '07...thats a STEAAAAAAALLL...

**matt5112** · 02-06-2010

Originally Posted by vailskier3

yeah, count me in for these if they fit an '07...thats a STEAAAAAAALLL...

they will, but get some boost first.

**gtpinsc** · 02-06-2010

Originally Posted by offroadfury6

lol well dont forget to update us when it all gets thrown together bro

old motor is out and parts swapped as needed...we were gonna get everything in tomorrow except supercharger, i was gonna paint it. but might jus go ahead and throw it back together... so maybe tomorrow it will be finished.

**badbrad** · 02-07-2010

got it going yet????ppppp...ssss... thanks again matt...some of the point i was tring to make."longer is fine, but not shorter" thats just ridiculous..

**gtpinsc** · 02-07-2010

nah not yet... my buddy is bein lazy... were gonna get back to it after lunch today. at least seal up headers and set motor in car today.. he will prob finish tomorrow while hes at work. the car is at his shop. decided on not to paint SC now... and get it powdercoated at a later date.