Need to add more timing.... (step in Alky guys)

**Iron Indian** · 03-09-2009

Don't know if this is the right place to post this, I guess i'll try here.

I've been running Alky for a month now and I have yet to use it to its fulliest potential. All i've done was drop from a 3.0" to a 2.9" and tuned my fueling to be around 11.5-11.7 AFR, thats about it. I'm also running a D05 Nozzle and 50/50 mix Alky/water. 0 kr of course.

I need to get the guts to add more timing, but i'm a bit leary i'll blow it up. Hate to purposely ruin a motor thats been real good to me. Anyone wanna put my mind at ease? LOL...

**Sabrewings** · 03-09-2009

Adding timing is easy. Add it until you get KR. A couple degrees of KR for a moment won't destroy the engine. If it does, it was on the way out anyway.

Just curious, how much WOT timing are you running now?

**Bio248** · 03-09-2009

switch to straight methanol. injecting pre-blower negates a lot of the effects of the water so it is more beneficial to just add as much octane as you can with the methanol. then youll be able to up the timing and maybe drop another pulley.

i havent made it through my first tank yet, but i have a gallon of meth waiting to go in so i can start actually seeing my KR stay at 0.

**fst** · 03-09-2009

try to get your hands on a timing commander/happy knob or rig up your own using a potetiometer tha tu can splice into your IAT harness. can add/lower timing with a turn of a knob ^_^....start a degree at a time and work your way up til u see knock then back off a degree and go from there.

**Rocket468** · 03-09-2009

Best to go small increments. Add 1 deg and take it for a spin and look for kr. Its common to run 1-2 deg of extra timing and 1 pully smaller when you switch to alky. Thats why it just rocks for L67. I know when bilal put this on his gtp he picked up .4 tenths. Running alky is also what helped me get my daytona very deep into the 12's . If i tune it better i think i can get a 11.9 out of it. Remember i don't have a cam /head work either.

Shawn i really feel these motors tend to run best with 50/50 mix. I have ran this and seen many other meth injected grand prix that make more power this way. I even seen bilal ditch his zzp intercooler for the meth and he made more power.

**Bio248** · 03-09-2009

id rather use the extra octane that the straight meth is going to get me than the cooling properties of the water that are nearly negated after it heats up through the blower anyway.

has anyone had any experiences with smelling burning when spraying? its almost like im smelling the washer fluid i have burn up at the rotors. i would hate to switch to straight meth and blow my blower through the hood because it ignites before the combustion chamber.

**Reptile** · 03-10-2009

Mix is still up in the air to me, Chance has a good handle on it. Different cars respond to different things, it also has everything to do with your goals, mods, etc. On mine, I ran a 50/50 mix on a DO5, dropped pulley sizes, but ran the same times, I pulled fuel until I cringed because it just didn't seem to want to respond to it. I ordered the DO10 and threw straight meth on it, and instantly saw results on my end. So play with it, you don't have to go all out extreme because you've got an intercooler to help you out. I think it's just an added insurance policy for you.

Originally Posted by Bio248

id rather use the extra octane that the straight meth is going to get me than the cooling properties of the water that are nearly negated after it heats up through the blower anyway.

has anyone had any experiences with smelling burning when spraying? its almost like im smelling the washer fluid i have burn up at the rotors. i would hate to switch to straight meth and blow my blower through the hood because it ignites before the combustion chamber.

Burning? I'm not sure I get what you're saying, but I've never smelled any odor while it's spraying. If you're behind the car, you can definitely tell that it kicks in though, it almost burns your eyes it's so potent.

**Iron Indian** · 03-12-2009

Sorry for the late reply, been busy with work!

I'm currently running 17-18 degrees of timing at WOT as of right now

As for timing adjustment capabilities, yes I have that, not only a Powertuner but I have an ICCU as well (fuel/timing adjuster)...

**agrazela** · 03-12-2009

Originally Posted by Bio248

...the cooling properties of the water that are nearly negated after it heats up through the blower anyway...

Does it really matter whether the water is heated "through" the blower or after the blower? Heat is heat and would be drawn off either way, right?

**Iron Indian** · 03-12-2009

Originally Posted by Rocket468

Best to go small increments. Add 1 deg and take it for a spin and look for kr. Its common to run 1-2 deg of extra timing and 1 pully smaller when you switch to alky. Thats why it just rocks for L67. I know when bilal put this on his gtp he picked up .4 tenths. Running alky is also what helped me get my daytona very deep into the 12's . If i tune it better i think i can get a 11.9 out of it. Remember i don't have a cam /head work either.

Well, i've already dropped one size down pulley wise. Went from a 3.0" to a 2.9". As far as timing goes, guys running 50/50 setups on these cars generally only add 1-2 deg if timing? I thought Alky guys were running quiet a bit more timing?

As far as mods go, yeah I know you're very similar to my setup. I want to run similar times to you. What was you're tune like at time? How much WOT timing were you running? What kinda tire?

Shawn i really feel these motors tend to run best with 50/50 mix. I have ran this and seen many other meth injected grand prix that make more power this way. I even seen bilal ditch his zzp intercooler for the meth and he made more power.

Bilal had an IC? I didn't know this...

**Bio248** · 03-12-2009

Originally Posted by agrazela

Does it really matter whether the water is heated "through" the blower or after the blower? Heat is heat and would be drawn off either way, right?

not really. outlet temps really dont change all that much unless you put something real cold in it (nitrous) or have an intercooler. the best way about this is to tap the lower intake so you actually cool the already heated air instead of cooling the air before it heats up. that's why im saying skip the water and im going for the octane that straight meth will add. with the e85 i would say that my overall octane rating when im running hard is going to be damn near close to 110. we'll see how my car likes it.

**blowfishRus6** · 03-12-2009

damn. its like having full time race gas.

i like this meth set up alot. hope to have a set up one day.

**BiggRiggs** · 03-13-2009

Bio248 - where are you spraying your alky kit at?

If you're spraying washer fluid, make sure that it doesn't have any additives in it.

Methanol and water should both be compatible with the epoxy coating on the rotors, but I'm not so sure about the ethylene glycol and some of the detergents that they put in washer fluid.

-Riggs.

**Reptile** · 03-13-2009

I believe that the De-Icer washer fluid is the stuff that has glycol in it.

Peak standard -20 fluid is what the biggest choice is if you don't buy the DO 50/50 or you can't mix your own.

**fst** · 03-13-2009

FWIW, im currently running 20*(tapers to 16* at the shift) on the 3.3" with the standard -20*F washer fluid. the afr thus far i checked(went out yesterday) was 11.2-11.3 and it touched 10.9 on the 2-3 shift with no knock.

once the washer tank goes near empty im going to be running a 70/30(meth/water) mixture and turn up the timing a bit more or run the 3.1" nd run 20* of timing or try and run the 2.9" with the 70% meth XD

**FoSHO99** · 03-13-2009

What kind of setups is everyone using as far as devils own, a homemade kit, etc.? Nozzles or proggressive controller settings?

There are alot of other people that use alky but not too many v6 s/c users. It would be nice to find out what works and what doesn't for our cars. They used to do alot of engine work and rebuilds in tractor pulling before alky was introduced, from there it just exploded.

**fst** · 03-13-2009

heres my setup:
devils own 150psi pump
tb spacer with a M07 nozzle
controller set to turn on at 6.5psi and a max setting at 10psi. the hoses and such are various places, from home depot/lowes to devils own fittings. the check valve i have is the older plastic ones from devils own

**Bio248** · 03-13-2009

ive got a devil's own kit with a M05 nozzle tapped into my blower case. i am waiting to run out of the washer fluid that is in my tank and im replacing it with straight meth that i have waiting in the basement. i will then proceed to drop pullies like *****es panties.

**Mikegotone'02** · 03-13-2009

Been working on this for a couple months now to install soon and do some real world testing. Myself and a couple engineers from work have done every type of bench testing we could think up including building my own mock up m90 and whatnot. I've also been working with BiggRiggs, he knows his sh*t haha. He pretty much worked with me through pm's every step of the way so he knows exactly what i'm up to with this little setup and another one i have in the works for later on in the season.

Post blower FTW, this way it has an actual inter-cooling effect instead of just raising the octane like pretty much every setup i've seen on the m90 apps including my own, so i'm not pointing fingers. Pre-blower just isn't efficient, so it DOES matter where the location is. All the gains you guys have seen is because of the meth not the water. Riggs can explain this into much further detail since, like i said, knows his sh*t.

My setup is 2 d03 nozzles (Not exactly sure they're called "do3" but they're 3gph)
AIS pump/reservoir with 150psi pump
boost activated at 6psi
Plastic tubing from AIS
Check valves... We'll see, i have a couple extra nitrous fuel solenoids laying around and believe that to be better IMO. It's another little idea i have, biggriggs i'll pm you when i get a chance to run that past you BTW. I just don't like check valves especially in my app since neither will ever crack at the exact same pressure causing chaos in my LIM.

**Reptile** · 03-13-2009

The "DO3" just basically stands for Devils Own size 3.

Let us know how this turns out, I like seeing new things, and you've got my interest with your setup.