Thread: engine cranked over until battery went dead, wouldn't start

Hey all,

My '02 GT has been starting fairly hard for a little while now. When the engine is cold, or its been sitting awhile, it will crank for 4-5 seconds before it fires. Once it starts, it runs fine and I can shut it off and turn it back on no problem.

Jump forward to this morning. I've been running storm work in eastern Minnesota and western Wisconsin, so the car has been sitting a few days. I get to the shop this morning, park the truck, and go to start the car and it cranks over but never fires. I ran the battery down trying to get it to start, put some cables on it, and ended up giving it a sip of ether to get it to fire. Once it started it ran fine, has been running fine on the way home.

I've also noticed a slight loss in power in the upper RPM's, like in a passing situation. Sometimes it'll hesitate and then won't shift up unless I let off a little.

Any idea what this could be? My buddy thinks possibly the fuel pressure regulator...?

Thanks,

Yeah, the first thing I checked is that valve...it did spray out. When I get a minute I'll go turn the key over and see if I can hear the fuel pump priming.

It has, in the past, started, stalled, then started hard. Once it's running, it idles and runs fine.

Thanks for the input, it's very much appreciated!

had a friend with same issue was the ignition switch where u install the key something was broken that might be it

Right on. Now comes the process of elimination.

Originally Posted by Scottydoggs

Do you hear the pump whine when the key is first turned?

Yeah, I can hear the pump run for a couple seconds when I turn the ignition on.


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Sounds good. I'll pick one up when I get a chance.

What should the pressures be?

Well, I couldn't get a tester at the local parts store, so I took a chance and bought a new FPR. Easy replacement, except for the snap ring. Man, what a pain to get back in. Apparently the snap ring pliers I purchased were junk. I've used many sets of em, but I ended up breaking a few of the pins. Don't know why, they just kept breaking when I compressed the ring. Probably just a POS tool. Anyway, I replaced the FPR and also replaced the plugs and wires. All said and done, I turned the key and it started right up. However, I'd started it before I changed the FPR to move it around in my driveway, so not sure if it's truly fixed. Tomorrow morning will be the test. That's when it usually acts up; that first cold start. Thanks again for all the advice guys!

One more thing; when I took the boots off the coils, a couple of the contacts were extremely corroded/dirty. What looked like rust literally spilled out/off of the boot and coil. I don't get misfire codes or have any other problems that could be caused by misfires. Only 2 out of the 6 were corroded like that. I want to say it was #'s 3 and 5 cylinders, but I could be wrong. I'd have to look again. Normal?

Good news; the old girl popped off pretty much right away this morning. I'll check the WOT response later, but hopefully this was the cure.

Now to dive into the LCA's...

Thanks a bunch guys!

If the fuel pump is working as you believe it to be, then u should have some pressure at the rails.....did you change the fuel filter? (might be clogged) and I know it is prolly a stupid question but is the car out of gas? Also I would spray some gas in the throttle body and see if it starts when you do that.

Fuel, Air, Spark. Engines need these three things, it's simple enough in theory, but sometimes it can be a pain to track down which of the three is the issue.

Air is typically not a problem, unless you have an EXTREMELY dirty air filter, or some form of critter got into the air box and built a nest on the outside of the air filter.

Fuel can be a number of things, starting from the simplest to the most difficult to check, I'd do the following:
Turn the key on, and listen for the fuel pump. If the car doesn't start right away, turn the key off and back on, then let the pump run until it stops, then crank it. If it takes a few seconds to build up to pressure, it may be a faulty fuel pump/sender unit, or a clogged fuel filter.

If the pump seems to build up pressure quickly, but the car won't start, it may be a bad fuel pressure regulator or bad injectors. The problem may also lie in the fuel injector wiring, but this is very unlikely. To determine fuel pressure regulator/fuel injector issues, you can buy/rent a fuel pressure gauge, and see what the fuel pressure is at the fuel rail. To check for power to the injectors, I would recommend a noid light set - Harbor freight has them, I think they're kind of pricey, but I have never bought one so I don't recall. A noid light set will plug into the injector wires and light up as you crank the engine over, to show whether or not voltage is going to that particular injector. Test them one at a time.

Spark can be another issue which would cause a hard start - If you have a weak coil/coils, improperly gapped spark plugs, or corroded connectors, 12.6V from the battery may not be enough to get the engine started, but it will run okay at 14.4V from the alternator once the engine is running. To check for spark, you should invest in a spark plug tester, it's a fairly cheap tool and quite effective, especially on the 3.8L engines where the coils are right in front. Disconnect one wire at a time, and hook the spark plug tester in-line with the wire. Crank the engine over and look to make sure the light bulb lights up. Repeat for each of the 6 wires. If you find one that doesn't light up, or if you notice corrosion on the inside of the spark plug wire boots or on the coil, clean it first, then try starting the vehicle.

Spark is also controlled by various sensors on the engine, which tell the ignition system when to fire. It is possible you have a faulty sensor somewhere, and it may not be reading the correct spark timing until the engine is running. Another possible cause is the ignition module itself, which can usually be tested by auto parts stores (IIRC) Advance Auto Parts or Autozone can test these free of charge.

This is just a bit of the information I remember from my college days as an automotive technology student, however I haven't worked in the automotive industry since the local iron foundry pays better ^_^. If anyone notices any misinformation in this post, please let me know and I'll change it ASAP.

Also, it's not a good idea to crank an engine over for more than 10 seconds at a time, as it can (and eventually will) burn out your starter. If it doesn't start within 5 seconds of cranking, it's typically time to start looking for issues.