Further degradation of the 3800 scene.

[Slick2500]

I see your point but it's kind of relative. You could buy the Speed Daddy's modify the downpipe and be done for a lot cheaper.

But that's not how businesses work. You have to factor in a markup of goods and services. For instance you are going to pay more for an item at Best Buy than you are going to pay for it on Ebay. I guess you could argue that is profit margin is too high but even at 60% (which is pretty conservative) the price comes out pretty close.

Let's say they WBS buys the headers for $175 (bulk discount) +60% = $280 + (fabricated downpipe) +180 = $460 + (cost to fabricate and weld the modifications) $100 = $560.

So it's obvious if you buy them off Ebay and do the work yourself then they are not worth $600. That isn't really a fair comparison though.

Now I know that you aren't actually reading anything that was posted on the first page of this thread....................

What Aaron received were SLIGHTLY modified SSAC/SD headers that originated from a chinese parts supplier.
I emailed this parts supplier regarding a bulk order of said parts (part number SDO-6802) and was quoted $80 USD per unit if purchased in bulk.
Shipped.

That price would explain why sometimes the price goes up to closer to $250 and sometimes it's down closer to $190, depends on how many bad ones they get when they get shipment.

[Pure2sin]

Looks like they were actually installed almost a year ago and purchased who knows when:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bU3n...Mb_h7Q&index=3

Published on Apr 22, 2013
New headers! 2000 GP GTP with Wbody store Headers and Magnaflow Hi Flow cat.

Had these on for about a month or almost two months now, and after they have finally been broken in, they have decent sound. Everything past the cat is still stock piping/resonator/muffler.

[FASGP]

Hey Pure2sin, since you are such an advocate for the community, and you are doing such an amazing job to defend WBS in this situation, why not ask Mike why he is a coward, and did not post photos of his product for us to all see the quality on Jan 6?

If WBS is afraid to even post photos of what we get for $599 during this **** storm, why on earth are you spouting your mouth with nonsense?

[Iceman6669]

Well if I remember correctly, and I could be totally wrong, the headers looked nothing like SD headers in the pictures. The DP was a ZZP/tog style bolt on, and the crossover was a design similar to ZZPs. Did anyone get any real specs on the headers in question? Such as primary size, cross over size, or anything like that? Also did anyone do a TYE test on then to confirm what grade of steel they were? I really fail to see how they are just SLIGHTLY modified SD headers if there is no rock hard proof.

[Pure2sin]

Hey Pure2sin, since you are such an advocate for the community, and you are doing such an amazing job to defend WBS in this situation, why not ask Mike why he is a coward, and did not post photos of his product for us to all see the quality on Jan 6?

If WBS is afraid to even post photos of what we get for $599 during this **** storm, why on earth are you spouting your mouth with nonsense?

What are you expecting to see from a picture Mike posts? You think he is going to post a bad picture of a product he is selling? There is no reason for him to post a picture other than because you want one. What will it prove by him posting a picture?

The better thing to do is see what customers opinions are of the headers they received. So far 1 out of 5 people has had an issue and nobody else has come forward with problems.

Hardly the massive issue that Snowflake is claiming.

But now he has backtracked all the way to the last and only claim that the base for the headers comes from China.

They are ZZP knockoffs for $150 cheaper.

[itsCOMPlicated]

Ok guys. I will say this again. WBodyStore does not manufacture their own headers. Mike is a middle man. He buys items from different companies and passes it to the end payer. He runs the business, or at least he used to, out of his garage. Yes, he even buys from ZZP. Do you think its just a coincidence that ZZP contact info fell out of the box?

So, you place an order, he then places an order to whatever company he buys that product from, has it shipped to his place, (or your place, which is why ZZP promotional items were in the box). He charges you for the transaction. He buys a fuel pump for, say, ten bucks, then charges you twelve. Pretty simple really. You guys really think he is in the garage out back of his house doing metal work?

Hahahaha!

Nope. Not all all. I saw the pictures of those effed up headers. You really think anyone that builds headers from scratch would let those headers walk out the door? They were probably shipped directly to the buyers house, so WBody didnt get to look them over.

Mike doesnt make anything. He admitted himself on ClubGP that WBody Store was very little income for him. Really? Does that make sense as to why he would make a bunch of those parts, but not make any money?

[Pure2sin]

Ok guys. I will say this again. WBodyStore does not manufacture their own headers. Mike is a middle man. He buys items from different companies and passes it to the end payer. He runs the business, or at least he used to, out of his garage. Yes, he even buys from ZZP. Do you think its just a coincidence that ZZP contact info fell out of the box?

So, you place an order, he then places an order to whatever company he buys that product from, has it shipped to his place, (or your place, which is why ZZP promotional items were in the box). He charges you for the transaction. He buys a fuel pump for, say, ten bucks, then charges you twelve. Pretty simple really. You guys really think he is in the garage out back of his house doing metal work?

Hahahaha!

Nope. Not all all. I saw the pictures of those effed up headers. You really think anyone that builds headers from scratch would let those headers walk out the door? They were probably shipped directly to the buyers house, so WBody didnt get to look them over.

Mike doesnt make anything. He admitted himself on ClubGP that WBody Store was very little income for him. Really? Does that make sense as to why he would make a bunch of those parts, but not make any money?

I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the WBS business model.

It was never a point of contention that he was "building his headers from scratch". He may however modify them himself or pay someone to have them modified after he gets the base (in bulk) from whatever supplier he uses. I think you are way off on the idea that he buys individual parts and has them shipped only because that is not a sustainable business model.

The performance of the configuration aside (same as ZZPs) the work has been done to modify them which justifies the cost.

So now the thread has turned from attacking the headers that have had only 1 complaint about aesthetics that isn't even related to performance to attacking his business model which you are making assumptions about.

It's pretty obvious certain people in this thread have a vendetta against WBS for some reasons which we may never know. I wouldn't put too much faith in the words of people who have less than 100 posts on this forum though.

[itsCOMPlicated]

So.....where am I wrong?. Go ahead and tell us exactly how the headers are "made" at WBS, since you have an intricate knowledge of their business model. Otherwise, it is you that are making assumptions.


I was in a discussion with him, a "buddy" jumped in and said that, "there's nothing wrong with have a business outta your garage at home. Leave him alone" so, yeah, his buddy verified it. I have also had ZZP sales receipts in my purchases from WBS. Also, some parts had the ZZP stamping on them. Its not hard to figure it out

Why dont you answer me as to why that happens?

[Pure2sin]

So.....where am I wrong?. Go ahead and tell us exactly how the headers are "made" at WBS, since you have an intricate knowledge of their business model. Otherwise, it is you that are making assumptions.


I was in a discussion with him, a "buddy" jumped in and said that, "there's nothing wrong with have a business outta your garage at home. Leave him alone" so, yeah, his buddy verified it. I have also had ZZP sales receipts in my purchases from WBS. Also, some parts had the ZZP stamping on them. Its not hard to figure it out

Why dont you answer me as to why that happens?

I don't know how they are made but I am not assuming he is buying 1 to 1 parts and selling them without touching them. For all I know he cuts, modifies and welds each set of headers himself in his garage but it's possible you could be right. But I don't see how that matters? You are stating what you think he is doing like it's a fact and that would be an assumption.

So what he runs a business out of a garage? Some of the most successful businesses in the world have started out in garages. This platform is dying so I guess I don't see your point. You think he should buy a office space with a warehouse?

He probably does collaborate on more than a few things from ZZP and other companies but why is that bad? You are mad that it's not hand made by someone other than ZZP? I know for a fact he doesn't make his own pulleys and buys them in bulk from another source. Are they marked up in price because of this. No. So who cares?

I do like your tactic of: You tell your opinion, then I tell mine, then you tell me I am acting like I know everything. lol

[itsCOMPlicated]

Ok. You have no idea about his business model that you reference several times? You dont know how or where the headers are manufactured?

Then why are you talking about it?



I know that he resells ZZP stuff, because I have had ZZP materials included in my purchase. That isnt an assumption. That is a factual statement.

When WBody Store says on their website that those headers are manufactured by WBS after 6 months of research and development, it is telling prospective buyers that the reason the headers are at a premium, is because WBS has spent months laboring and designing a premium header. It is painting a picture that is not true.

That isnt being a good salesman. Thats telling outright lies.

[itsCOMPlicated]

Just checked WBS website. It says they manufacture parts. Which ones?

[SnowFlake]

Just checked WBS website. It says they manufacture parts. Which ones?

Maybe they make the dorman trailing arms they sell as 'wbs' trailing arms.

[Turbocharged400sbc]

the IC core which is the only one you can modify for single pass.... the WBS beltwrap, probably others....

back in the day Ron Vogel racing used to make fuel rails and LCA's for mike

[Pure2sin]

Ok. You have no idea about his business model that you reference several times? You dont know how or where the headers are manufactured?

Then why are you talking about it?

Did I say I did? I formed an opinion (sentences started with "I think") about what makes a good business model. It's not hard for anyone with a brain to understand its not sustainable business model to buy 1 item at a time and try to make a profit.

When you make claims like this:

Ok guys. I will say this again. WBodyStore does not manufacture their own headers. Mike is a middle man. He buys items from different companies and passes it to the end payer.

That is not an opinion. You trying pass off your opinion, in the form of a blanket statement, as fact but in reality you have no clue.

I know that he resells ZZP stuff, because I have had ZZP materials included in my purchase. That isnt an assumption. That is a factual statement.

I guess you just didn't read my response:

He probably does collaborate on more than a few things from ZZP and other companies but why is that bad? You are mad that it's not hand made by someone other than ZZP? I know for a fact he doesn't make his own pulleys and buys them in bulk from another source. Are they marked up in price because of this. No. So who cares?

--

When WBody Store says on their website that those headers are manufactured by WBS after 6 months of research and development, it is telling prospective buyers that the reason the headers are at a premium, is because WBS has spent months laboring and designing a premium header. It is painting a picture that is not true.

That isnt being a good salesman. Thats telling outright lies.

And you know for a fact?

He said he runs this business on the side so it's perfectly understandable that it could take 6 months. I don't think the design of the headers (ZZP knockoff) was just welded together by guessing. The parts had to be sourced, a design had to be made and some sort of setup had to be created to modify headers or find a business to do the modification etc.. There also has to be some process formulated, jig made, measurements taken to ensure that process for creating the headers is repeatable.

Again my opinion but I feel I am a lot closer to reality than what you are claiming.

[Pure2sin]

Either way claims of fraud and false advertising are baseless nonsense.

90% of the first post in this thread is completely false.

The people who are on this "witch hunt" should try vetting their source before jumping on the bandwagon.

My point has been proven.

[Scottydoggs]

how is this not locked yet????

some of you are huge babys.


facts are: these NEW wbs headers are built like crap and not worth 600. case closed.

[theaceofspades]

how is this not locked yet????

some of you are huge babys

"Like"

[itsCOMPlicated]

I understand that doing business the way I say he does, would be a poor business model. It makes sense as to why WBS is such a small percentage of income for him. So, you support my stance yet again. Thank you.

Buying a full, complete set of headers, modifying them, then passing them on to a consumer, IS NOT MANUFACTURING THEM.

Whoever the source is, should at least be credited with the base product. That's why ZZP includes the name of the MANUFACTURER in certain products, like cams, valve springs, etc.

Why, you ask? Because it's its their product. Pretty simple.



Yes, I do know. A couple people verified in private, the topics I was bringing up. First, they asked how I knew, then they starting talking and verified it.

When the "mods' over at ClubGP knew I wasn't shutting up, they kicked me off. Why?

Because Mike is a ZZP customer.

You've provided nothing to this besides giving your admitted OPINION. Like you said, opinion isn't proof.

geezus, this is basic

Oh yeah. Before you or anyone gets froggy about what I am saying, realize that if the city and state Mike lives in would be very upset that there is a "manufacturer", within those boundries, that isn't paying the appropriate taxes, zoning fees, and/or liability insurances for a manufacturing facility.

[itsCOMPlicated]

that post isn't a threat, either.
just saying that he isn't thinking this out.

But, I could be wrong. I could be wrong about all of it.

[91parkave]

Honesty is the best policy. If you're company is reworking eBay headers you should state modified headers in the description. Its 2014 and there no reason you can't defend your own business with your manufacturing photos and or video of your facility. It would take all of 5min to give customers a walk through of your headers in question with a video...and before people say ahh he's to busy that's b.s and everyone has a minute or too.