Further degradation of the 3800 scene.

**Iceman6669** · 01-19-2014

Truth is that people think WBS is charging too much for his headers regardless of what they are.

**ericspecullaas** · 01-19-2014

no personally the point was made back on page 1 im asking why is this keep on going over and over again its not going to change anything. they bought cheap china headers and modded them. even snowflake is trying to raise the money to show whats really going on. its that old saying you cant beat a dead horse.

**itsCOMPlicated** · 01-19-2014

Eric - Fair enough

**Turbocharged400sbc** · 01-19-2014

Originally Posted by itsCOMPlicated

for turbo:

you're right. ZZP doesn't manufacture all of their stuff either!

hahaha! True story.

so.. what does that have to do with WBS?

Example.

Yo walk into WalMart to buy cereal. WalMart doesn't say they make that cereal. It says, "Kelloggs" in big letters across the front. Why? Because the manufacturer of that cereal wants people to know who made it.

WalMart also has private label items. They are made by a company that WalMart chooses, then they have a WalMart logo slapped on it.

BUT....Here is the difference. The manufacturer of that cereal IS NOTED ON EVERY BOX.

Whether it is cereal, milk, corn chips, etc.

your making the case that wbs sucks cause they lie to you and dont put the name of the original manufacturer on the box/finished product

so because comp cams doesnt put the name of the original supplier of their bolts on the box....
TIMKEN sells bearings made by others in china with their name on the box...AND the part....yet they dont manufacture em where's your outrage there?!?

Home depot also has private label stuff...not all of it boasts the original manufacturers information.

example:
you walk into a chevy dealership to buy a chevy. CHevy says they make the corvette...it says CHEVROLET on it
WHY? because the manufacturer of that car wants eveyone to know who made it...

Chevy also has private label cars...they are made by a foreign company that GM chooses...then they have a GM/chevy logo slapped on it....

BUT...here's the difference....the manufacturer of that Aveo... DAEWOO... IS NOT NOTED ON EVERY CAR

just because information is withheld about a parts true source to protect a companies revenue stream/product line sales doesnt mean they are a bad company

im sure zzp will change their website for replacement IC cores to show you that you can buy em from advanced auto for 45$ since it in no way would lose them money...

i see on GM's website that they list the 8000 parts and suppliers from all over the globe to assemble a GM truck, hell they even give you contact data so you can buy that "dealer only" trim piece directly from ABC plastics for 20$ instead of the 140$ GM wants at their parts counter...

its business...nice to see how just one company doing it is ruffling your feathers when all of em do it since the dawn of time...sorta why the whole "caveat emptor" saying was created back in the days when people bought and sold stone wheels....

**Turbocharged400sbc** · 01-19-2014

Originally Posted by itsCOMPlicated

Comp Cams question.

1) The cams that ZZP sells are noted that they are indeed, Comp Cams.

2) There is a difference in Comp Cams hiring a third party to MANUFACTURE them for Comp Cams. That's what you are talking about. Somewhere, whether on Comp Cams website, or on the box, will show exactly where they are made.

BUT....here is the difference. When you buy a good or service from WBS, you, at that point, have a contract with WBS. Not with ZZP, not with Comp Cams. You have a right to know where that product originated from. Comp Cams wouldn't have to tell you ****. You didn't buy from them.

It is a business transaction, or a contract. Why the Hell do you think you get a receipt?

If WBS has headers that they say are manufactured by WBS, then they should be manufactured by WBS.

That is the difference

2. not on their website and its not on their boxes or in the bag....

if you have a problem with one of their bolts they send you a new one from the pallet of 6,000 bolts they bought from xxxx for 5 cents each and have a 4000% markup on....

im sure zzp lists the size and company that makes the bolts for their headers so you dont have to buy the whole kit from em....you can just buy the headers and save money by buying your own bolts

knowing where something is made and by whom is a privilege or a function of research and legwork...not a right...it is a tenement of business to keep proprietary info from the public lest they lose profits as people bypass the middle men/service people.

and as i said before that it appears that there are two sets of wbs headers...the early units that are heavily modified OBX and the later modified SD units

chevy should start making their own drive by wire TB's, ECU's, and tires if your idea of "manufactured" is that everything should be made in house by the same company and should be labeled and reported to the world where and who made them

GM merely assembles outside parts and slaps their name on it....they should be manufactured by GM...not just modified and assembled by them...

That is the same thing....

**Pure2sin** · 01-19-2014

Originally Posted by SnowFlake

You have no idea how they perform because you have zero knowledge about header engineering.

I will use a direct quote from you. "You know less than zero about me". You have no idea what I do or do not know about headers or anything else for that matter.

Are you a self proclaimed expert in header engineering as well, just like everything else?

The WBS design is a direct knock off of the ZZP design with a a few slight design nuances. I would believe ZZPs expertise on header engineering and design over yours any day.

**Grimsin** · 01-20-2014

**FASGP** · 01-20-2014

Originally Posted by Pure2sin

The WBS design is a direct knock off of the ZZP design with a a few slight design nuances. I would believe ZZPs expertise on header engineering and design over yours any day.

No it is not. If it was, and was actually built here in the US, and adapted simply good quality workmanship, it would be worth the $599 charged, and be considered a good quality knock off of ZZP headers.

But because there are no pictures of the primaries you get for $599, and the book has been left open on what version of china knock off header that is being used as the baseline for constructing these WBS ones, there is still no justification for the value put on them. The time has also well passed for anyone to see photos from Mike that will change our minds now, as there has been plenty of time to build a set and take photos of them.

Enough time has been wasted on this matter, and the point was made. The headers are made using knock off china headers that you can get for less than $218 when you buy in bulk, and that is it. The WBS is making a good profit on them, so just close the book, and buy what you like. The options are ZZP for $689+ or the other brands for $218+.