OBAMA OR McCAIN?????

[GTPJOE90]

im starting to get into this political stuff i was watching a convention on tv and obama tore mccain a new 1 it was awesome! lol

[Deezul_AwT]

I think the debates are where this race is going to be won or lost. One of the candidates is going to be made to look really silly, and that will do it for a lot of independents.

[WhiteDevil]

^^^my kids will tell me and Ill listen if its about church. On second thought, I wont put my children into church where they will be fed a bunch of bull**** and lies.



My vote is definetly for McCain now, especially since PALIN is on board.

gotta love a governor who got picked to be a running mate while in a lawsuit against the US government.

[beastin1]

well to keep everyone current... I'm lovin everything Sarah Palin has to say...she just may be our first female president one day, until then...i'm now leaning towards the mccain party

[SyntheticShield]

I dont vote for political parties, but I am a bit conservative. I definitely do not like Obama. I was not horribly excited about McCain but Ive listened to what he has had to say in previous presidential runs and was more inclined to vote for him over Obama simply because he scares me a little, about as much as Clinton. But now that Palin is on the ticket, she has kinda made it a bit more certain who I will vote for.

In fact Im watching the republican convention now in fact.

[Deezul_AwT]

Here's what bothers me about Palin. Much of what was discussed as bad reasons to pick Tim Kaine as a running mate (little foreign policy experience, hadn't finished first term as governor) were glossed over when picking Palin.

Something else that keeps bothering me is McCain/Palin supporters are often saying, "You wouldn't ask that if she was a man! Stop picking on her because she's a woman!" Ok, then stop saying she's "a mother." How many times have McCain or Obama said, "He's a great father, with 7 or 2 children" over and over?

Another favorite, "She's governor of the largest state!" Will they also say, "She's governor of the 47th most populated state!"

I think many Hillary Clinton supporters that immediately would change their vote because Palin IS a woman will reconsider. Just because she doesn't have a penis doesn't mean her views are the same. She is a card carrying conservative, probably more so than McCain. If those are your views, than he picked a winner.

A lot of reports are that McCain wanted to go with Joe Lieberman or Tom Ridge because he has a better relationship with them. But the Republican party would have a stroke if either one of them was the nominee.

[SyntheticShield]

I think you kinda touched on some important things. There is too much, for the lack of a better word, strategy when selecting something like a VP. But I really blame the public for that. They are more impressed with speech giving ability, likability, superficial things like that instead of true qualifications.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. We ask more questions of and do more of a background check for employees of McDonalds than we do the people we vote into office.

Theres just a lot wrong with the process as a whole, much of it our own fault. The change isnt necessarily going to come from Washington. Its going to come from the people when they get tired enough to truly focus on an issue and demand true change.

[Deezul_AwT]

As I was having a discussion with coworkers yesterday, the Constitution really only lays out TWO requirements to be president - natural born citizen and 35 years old. Even worse, the requirements for a Supreme Court justices? NONE. If you have a VERY friendly Congress, a president could nominate an 8 year old and he or she be approved.

REAL change will be a President and Vice President nominee that have never even VISITED Washington, DC. TRUE outsiders.

[SyntheticShield]

REAL change will be a President and Vice President nominee that have never even VISITED Washington, DC. TRUE outsiders.

I too think this would be good as well. The unfortunate thing that would kill such an idea is the campaign financing and the reluctance of the general public to give any such people a real chance, even if they had excellent ideas, plans and goals.

[Deezul_AwT]

I too think this would be good as well. The unfortunate thing that would kill such an idea is the campaign financing and the reluctance of the general public to give any such people a real chance, even if they had excellent ideas, plans and goals.

Yep, Catch 22.

If you've been in politics you're a Washington Insider. If your new, you have no experience. What is the benchmark?

Abraham Lincoln is up there in the top 5 American presidents. Guess what his elected political experience was before he was president? ONE term as a representative in Illinois. He lost in 1858 for a Senate seat. Not only that, but he completed that term 10 years before he was elected president.

I'm not saying Bill Gates should be president, but how are you going to argue that the richest man in the world (maybe not right now) is not a good choice? He must have been doing something right...

[SyntheticShield]

Alot of the success due to such examples as Abraham Lincoln was because it was all before the media age. I dont remember the presidents name now, but there was one that was in a wheel chair due to polio or something. You think he would have been elected today?

We tend to be a vain society unfortunately. We also tend to want to be told what to think so when the media says something about someone, we usually bite hook line and sinker. I think if we did more research on our own, found the facts for ourselves things would drastically different.

[Deezul_AwT]

Alot of the success due to such examples as Abraham Lincoln was because it was all before the media age. I dont remember the presidents name now, but there was one that was in a wheel chair due to polio or something. You think he would have been elected today?

We tend to be a vain society unfortunately. We also tend to want to be told what to think so when the media says something about someone, we usually bite hook line and sinker. I think if we did more research on our own, found the facts for ourselves things would drastically different.

Franklin Roosevelt. He tried very hard to hide that he was in a wheelchair. Pictures of him usually were with him behind desks or sitting in chairs. And yes, those with disabilities can get elected. The governor of New York is legally blind. Granted, he was the Lt. Governor and became Governor when the former resigned, but I still believe the Lt. Governor in NY is elected separately from the Governor. NY residents, correct me if I'm wrong.

And you are spot on with the research. If the only choices for President were those that ran for the Republican party nominee, I'd have voted for McCain. For the Dems, it would have been Obama or Clinton. For them it might have come down to VP nominee.

[Deezul_AwT]

A letter from a resident of Wasillia, AK, where Palin was mayor.

snopes.com: A Note to All by Anne Kilkenny

[Randy_W]

A letter from a resident of Wasillia, AK, where Palin was mayor.

snopes.com: A Note to All by Anne Kilkenny

By all means you're not implying that a 90% approval rating in her home state is trumped my a local woman that doesn't like her?
How hard is it to find volumes of absolutely true, very negative stories of Obama, Biden, McCain or any other public person you name? The answer, not very. You seem like a sharp Liberal, I can't believe you offer that as proof of her as unfit!

[Deezul_AwT]

By all means you're not implying that a 90% approval rating in her home state is trumped my a local woman that doesn't like her?
How hard is it to find volumes of absolutely true, very negative stories of Obama, Biden, McCain or any other public person you name? The answer, not very. You seem like a sharp Liberal, I can't believe you offer that as proof of her as unfit!

You've made up your mind. I could tell you she killed a man, and you'd say he deserved it. I never offered it as proof, but we've seen plenty of letters from friends. Why not offered fair and balanced letter from the other side? You don't see what you like, so you say it's bogus?

Someone who starts firing people when they don't get their way is a bully. Someone who makes up facts, and refuses to correct them, and CONTINUES TO REPEAT them, shouldn't be trusted. The Alaskan governor's plane was NOT sold on eBay - it was listed, and eventually sold for a lose elsewhere. The state of Alaska gets MORE PER CAPITA from the US government that any other state. Yet she's against pork and earmarks? Explain that one. Just that one. Tell me, PLEASE. You hire a lobbyist to go to Alaska to bring money to your state, but you're against pork spending and earmarks. How is that possible? Also, McCain and Palin continue to say Obama has never introduced legislation. So the legislature below was entered in Bizarro world?

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I offered evidence of the other side, and again, the response I get are that I'm and idiot or that proof isn't enough. I'm giving out facts to counter a lot of conjecture and statements others on here are making.

[SyntheticShield]

All I can say Deezul is that I respect your opinion and do not want this thread to turn into something that needs to be locked but quite frankly Snoopes and Wikipedia are not exactly irrefutable sources or facts.

Dont take that as an attack, I just would be reluctant to state those sources as completely factual. Though, at least you and others such as Street Wolf are trying to do research and find the information and you are both to be commended for that.

I guess what we have to understand is that the same information can mean different things to different people. We all have a different collection of information and determinations based on that information. So one additional piece of info may fill in a blank for one to strengthen his/her position and that same piece of information may be the ammunition for another to make his/her counter point.

[Deezul_AwT]

All I can say Deezul is that I respect your opinion and do not want this thread to turn into something that needs to be locked but quite frankly Snoopes and Wikipedia are not exactly irrefutable sources or facts.

Dont take that as an attack, I just would be reluctant to state those sources as completely factual. Though, at least you and others such as Street Wolf are trying to do research and find the information and you are both to be commended for that.

I try to find an outside source, not just my opinion. When I ask for the same, the response I get is conjecture and opinion. Only once has someone else provided me with proof supporting their position, and I thanked them for it.

[Deezul_AwT]

I was going to quote all of you post SynShield, but no need...

I will use the generic "his" in this post.

Every Congressman knows that to keep being elected, he has to give something to his community, whether it's money for jobs creation, road construction, etc. For every congressman that wants to "cut pork spending," he'll find some way to funnel money to his district. McCain has not asked for "pork" spending, in the sense that he wants $500,000 for a study of the life of a peanut, or the habitats of a groundhog. BUT, he has had money sent to Arizona for an academic center honoring William Renquist. Was it needed? Was it pork?

If, and this is a HUGE if, Congress asked the American people "We need to raise your gas tax 2 cents a gallon. However, 100% of those 2 cents would go to road improvements" I'd say more than 50% of the population would say yes.

Another game politicians like to play is the "raise your taxes" pledge. Many of the tax cuts passed a few years ago included sunset provisions in 2010 or 2011. I know the Estate tax is one of them. McCain wants to make them permanent, Obama does not. It is unlikely the laws would have passed at the time HAD they been permanent from day one. But putting a sunset date makes them more likely to pass. Now, by technically not doing anything about ending the sunset date, Obama's plan means "raising" taxes. I'd like to call a politician out on this. I'd say, "I don't want to pay ANY taxes except for local taxes and ones to support the military By making me pay for something I don't want to pay, you are RAISING MY TAXES above what I'm willing to pay." No one WANTS to pay taxes, but if you want services that folks have gotten used to, the money's got to come from somewhere.

[SyntheticShield]

Well I agree, for the most part with what you are saying. However, there are a lot of so called services that are just not working and yet still get funding. There is just a lot of spending I feel could be cut back.

When I need more money or have to cover additional expenses, my first action isnt to go to my employer and ask for a raise, its find ways to cut expenses or stop purchasing other things that arent absolutely necessary. I would very much like to see our government, both local and federal held to the same standard.

[Deezul_AwT]

When I need more money or have to cover additional expenses, my first action isnt to go to my employer and ask for a raise, its find ways to cut expenses or stop purchasing other things that arent absolutely necessary. I would very much like to see our government, both local and federal held to the same standard.

'94 Congress tried with the line item veto, but the Line Item Veto would require a constitutional amendment. Too bad a candidate can't run on that. But no incumbent congressman would consider supporting line item veto.