OBAMA OR McCAIN?????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 04CompG

Deport 2 million illegal immigrants who committed crimes
There are 2 million people who are here who have committed crimes. They have to be rounded up and deported. We're all basically in agreement there are humanitarian situations. It varies with how long they've been here, et cetera. We are all committed to carrying out the mandate of the American people, which is a national security issue, which is securing the borders. That was part of the original proposal, but the American people didn't trust or have confidence in us that we would do it.
Source: 2008 Republican debate at Reagan Library in Simi Valley Jan 30, 2008

Would no longer push his own 2006 immigration proposal
Q: Your 2006 immigration proposal was much broader and included a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who were already here. At this point, if your original proposal came to a vote on the Senate floor, would you vote for it?
A: No, it would not, because we know what the situation is today. So to say that that would come to the floor of the Senate, it won't. We went through various amendments which prevented that proposal. We will secure the borders first when I am president. I know how to d that. I come from a border state, where we know about building walls, and vehicle barriers, and sensors, and all of the things necessary. I will have the border state governors certify the borders are secured. Then we will move onto the other aspects of this issue, as importantly as tamper-proof biometric documents, which then, unless an employer hires someone with those documents, that employer will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That will cause a lot of people to leave voluntarily.

Source: 2008 Republican debate at Reagan Library in Simi Valley Jan 30, 2008

---

A Christmas miracle! Someone followed through! Thank you.

This next question is not directed at you in particular, CompG, but it brings up an interesting one. When is it "changing your position due to new information" and not "flip flopping?" Is there a time period involved? Or just "gut feeling." I think most would agree that if you said something and changed your mind the next day, the next week, maybe upto a month, that's a flip-flop. How many guys said when they were 6 or 7 years, old, "Eww, girls!" and are now happily marriaged/engaged/etc.? Does that make them a flip-flopper?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Street Wolf

Vote me for President.


Come on, it'd be cool. Do it.

---

where do you stand on guns and immigration reform?

I am 100% pro gun

100% anti illegal immigration.

the illegals rape and pilage they dont embrace and fortify

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteDevil

where do you stand on guns and immigration reform?

I am 100% pro gun

100% anti illegal immigration.

the illegals rape and pilage they dont embrace and fortify

---

What about illegal immigrants that are pro gun? How do you feel? :th_laugh-lol2:

I'm not sure where I stand on that one. I just know that once I realized I was following the crowd and all for obama I decided to do my own research. After that I was for Mccain, I just agree a lot more with his views then obamas. Granted theres some things that obama says he would do that I would like but as a whole its mccain.

Yea Biden hates the fact that we can pretty easily obtain military grade rifles in this country. ****, I won a Socom M14 at a local gun shop last year then I sold it to a guy in Washington State over the internet. But anyway, Biden is going to push for the assault weapons ban and thats not going to go over well with a lot of people I know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deezul_AwT

What about illegal immigrants that are pro gun? How do you feel? :th_laugh-lol2:

---

they can be pro gun, however they are not protected by our consitutional rights as citizens.

England tried to disarm us once, we all know the outcome of that.


Biden can have my guns, bullets first, I am a law abiding citizen, I have a clean and clear record, no mental problems nothing, I have well we have conformed to this democratic states laws and they still want to take em from us, yeah that'll go over like a beer fart in church.

I know a few suburbs have dropped they gun bans be it full bans or just handguns due to the NRA-ILA filing lawsuits.

Now we just need to sue the government for violating our rights as citizens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 04CompG

Yea Biden hates the fact that we can pretty easily obtain military grade rifles in this country. ****, I won a Socom M14 at a local gun shop last year then I sold it to a guy in Washington State over the internet. But anyway, Biden is going to push for the assault weapons ban and thats not going to go over well with a lot of people I know.

---

they arent military arms though, thats whats the big smoke show. They are very toned down, they ONLY relic the originals in looks not firepower rate nor anything else.

I have only found one AR-15 manufacturer that has an issue "Style" AR and thats eaglearms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteDevil

they can be pro gun, however they are not protected by our consitutional rights as citizens.

England tried to disarm us once, we all know the outcome of that.


Biden can have my guns, bullets first, I am a law abiding citizen, I have a clean and clear record, no mental problems nothing, I have well we have conformed to this democratic states laws and they still want to take em from us, yeah that'll go over like a beer fart in church.

I know a few suburbs have dropped they gun bans be it full bans or just handguns due to the NRA-ILA filing lawsuits.

Now we just need to sue the government for violating our rights as citizens.

---

Couple points on your post. Regarding England disarming us - one of the big reasons for the 2nd amendment, as well as the 3rd amendment, was forcing folks to house troops against their will. Stopping that, as well as providing the right to bear arms, stopped that practice. At least in theory.

The recent Supreme Court case regarding the DC gun ban said, KIND OF, that the 2nd amendment applies to CITIZENS, not "well regulated militias." And that's where the bulk of the arguments begin. What did the founders mean by "well regulated militias?" Only National Guard/Military? What about local law enforcement? Not until Eli Whitney created an assembly line for replaceable parts were guns easy to come by. Not one of us can speak for the founding fathers, but it's always something historians like to play games with. The 2nd Amendment is always a big "what if" game - would the amendment have read that ONLY state controlled militias could be gun owners, or anyone registering as a gun owner, or anyone regardless?

I can't speak for everyone, and throwing around "everyone" "no one" "all" or "none" is always dangerous. But for every "EVERYONE should have the right to own a gun," would you want a mentally handicapped person or felon convicted of using a gun in the commission of a crime to STILL retain that right? Felons often lose voting rights and can NEVER get them back, and that has been upheld in numerous court cases.

I think that gun ownership should be treated similar to driving rights. You have to take a class and prove you can handle your particular weapon. You'd have to be certified by class - handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. My wife has a CCP, so she had to take a class. When my father dies, I'll get his .38 special service revolver, and I'll take a gun safety class then. My oldest son is 8 now, and probably when he's 10, since there are guns in the house, he'll be taking a class.

Do I believe that 100% of the time, anyone can walk into a gun shop and say, "give me that on," drop down cash, and walk out? No. But do I also think that someone could walk in, pick out a gun, show he or she has proven the ability to handle one, and their criminal record is clean, drop the cash, and walk out? Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteDevil

where do you stand on guns and immigration reform?

I am 100% pro gun

100% anti illegal immigration.

the illegals rape and pilage they dont embrace and fortify

---

100% Pro Gun, 0% rights for illegal immigrant's, 200% pro gun use on illegal immigrants. :th_biggrin2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Street Wolf

100% Pro Gun, 0% rights for illegal immigrant's, 200% pro gun use on illegal immigrants. :th_biggrin2:

---

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/barrett_82A1.jpg

https://secure.democracyinaction.org...es/compare.jpg

give EVERY border agent one of them bad boys, park em about a mile away and let freedom RING.

Quote:

---

But do I also think that someone could walk in, pick out a gun, show he or she has proven the ability to handle one, and their criminal record is clean, drop the cash, and walk out? Yes.

---

Obama doesn't believe that way, check the record. Also, let me ask, do you honestly in your heart believe that he sat in Rev Wright's church for twenty years and didn't know he was a raging anti white racist? The man married him, Christened his children and mentored him. All this according to Barack, himself. If you sit in church for twenty years and hear those messages and then lionize the man, you don't need to base patriotism on a lapel pin, you've already proved where you stand. Then when politics dictate, you roll this same "mentor", under the bus, which shows your true loyalty. His wife wasn't proud of her country, until her husband was a candidate for president??
So what are you going to believe, all the hype, or your own lying eyes??:th_winking:

I dont mind the waiting periods, policies and procedures however just having the ID card is BS, a violation of our rights plain and simple.

He is from illinois, he will try and turn the country into the police state we have here, I didnt watch but heard he was anti AR weapons last night, that sure changed since he has laid it out as he will ban alot of ammunition, especially calibers that are widely used by hunters, cops and soldiers all because some gangbangers have AR's and hunting weapons and use them in criminal ways.


Obama is a racist, there is no doubt about that, sucks too because his mother and step father are both crackers, his kenyan father did what most( NOT ALL) black men do with kids, run far away.


I do not hunt with a gun, so personally it doesnt effect me in my day to day life, however it effects my rights and thats why im all over this.

they'll never abolish the right to bear arms, its the freaking consitution. even if, we as americans will just do it anyway, lol

they can abolish if they get the votes to do so, and every hippy in washington will vote anti 2nd amendment if its on the table.

What I dont understand is how the government can underfund its police departments, even if its just state departments that do get the funding, how can they sleep at night knowing thy let our police agents on the streets with wimpy firepower.

im not sure how it is in any other city in america but chicago has issued M4's to its patrol officers to combat the gang bangers and drug pushers who have much more superior firepower then our cops do. This leads to alot of dead kids on our streets and counting. This is so called Osama Obama country, these are his streets, this is where he lives. this is what scares me into buying more and more firearms before the ban and crackdown go into effect.

We cant win, we get obama, daley, jackson and blago. we be screwed.

ABC News: City Under Siege: Chicago Police Crack Down on Violence

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Randy_W

His wife wasn't proud of her country, until her husband was a candidate for president??
So what are you going to believe, all the hype, or your own lying eyes??:th_winking:

---

John McCain said he wasn't proud to be an American until his was a POW. He throws around the "elitist" label, yet he can't remember how many houses he owns. I wish I had that problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteDevil

they can abolish if they get the votes to do so, and every hippy in washington will vote anti 2nd amendment if its on the table.

What I dont understand is how the government can underfund its police departments, even if its just state departments that do get the funding, how can they sleep at night knowing thy let our police agents on the streets with wimpy firepower.

im not sure how it is in any other city in america but chicago has issued M4's to its patrol officers to combat the gang bangers and drug pushers who have much more superior firepower then our cops do. This leads to alot of dead kids on our streets and counting. This is so called Osama Obama country, these are his streets, this is where he lives. this is what scares me into buying more and more firearms before the ban and crackdown go into effect.

We cant win, we get obama, daley, jackson and blago. we be screwed.

ABC News: City Under Siege: Chicago Police Crack Down on Violence

---

that was my point, their not going to get the votes they need to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deezul_AwT

John McCain said he wasn't proud to be an American until his was a POW. He throws around the "elitist" label, yet he can't remember how many houses he owns. I wish I had that problem.

---

I've never seen that McCain quote, can you reference it for me? I looked and couldn't find it. As for how many houses he and his wife own, why should he know or care? They're wealthy through her family's money, it's not like he's paying mortgage payments. Since when is it a crime to marry into a wealthy family. Better marry money than swap favors with Tony Rezko to get it as Obama did.:th_winking:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by offroadfury6

that was my point, their not going to get the votes they need to do so.

---

democratic president, democratic majority in the house and senate....... bipartisanship is a smoke screen.

did you guys know that obama praticed muslim until his election and then he joined the church of christ of chicago...he will do anything to get elected...just pulled this up on washington post...

pffft....was a stupid mo-tha....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by offroadfury6

did you guys know that obama praticed muslim until his election and then he joined the church of christ of chicago...he will do anything to get elected...just pulled this up on washington post...

pffft....was a stupid mo-tha....

---

Hey, did you hear of that first amendment, that little thing about separation or church and state? Why should it matter what his religion is? 2nd, just above someone mentioned that Obama attended a church for 20 years. But he was a closet Muslim? He's been Christian his entire life.

3rd, here's my proof about McCain not being proud of being American. Video Link

YouTube - McCain Said He Did Not Love America! Actual video