Thread: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck you

Results 1 to 20 of 78

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GT Level Member JJ91284's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Schaumburg, IL
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    In all fairness guys, zzp more than likely sells 10 times the number of input shafts as intense-racing. Their's bound to be failures.

    That input shaft looks like it was broke because of Shock Loading. I'm guessing it either broke at a launch with slicks, or it snapped via a hard downshift.

    For those of you that are planning on going balls to the wall, for $75 more its probably better to invest in the 300m input shaft. I know for my mods and future plans, the 4340 should be more than adequate.
    1997 Black GTP 72k (4dr), 3.5 Pulley, Wbody Downpipe, Wbody Shift kit (street), DHP 1.0, NGK TR55ix Spark Plugs, GMP Handling kit, KYB AGX Struts, AT Italia Inox 245x45x18 Goodyear Eagle F1, GMPP Springs, Corvette C5 Calipers, Blazertech 3200, DHP Powertuner (97-03), Built Trans, Torsen Diff
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    Donating Users NaturallySmashed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Medford, NY
    Posts
    576
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    when a company makes ridiculous claims as.. a supercharged car would never be able to break this shaft.. i'm pretty sure they should guarantee it. if it breaks.. at least send the guy a new one.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    Donating Users chrisb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bucyrus, OH
    Posts
    404
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    heres somthing also about the Intense shafts they are made by the same company that makes them for the gm racing team. but i have a zzp 300m.... i cant complain since i dont have it installed yet.
    99 Grand Prix old build- CAI, Custom exhaust, HV3, Stage 2 TB, custom tune, ported heads intense s1x cam, headers.
    Nothing great Just a small T66 Turbo with a Hv3 On a stock tranny untill i finish the other one.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
    heres somthing also about the Intense shafts they are made by the same company that makes them for the gm racing team.

    I've heard that before. Like I said, the Intense shaft has been around years longer than ZZPs. Hell when Intense and ZZP were friends, all the ZZP cars ran Intense shafts amongst other parts...
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GT Level Member JJ91284's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Schaumburg, IL
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Indian View Post
    I've heard that before. Like I said, the Intense shaft has been around years longer than ZZPs. Hell when Intense and ZZP were friends, all the ZZP cars ran Intense shafts amongst other parts...
    You do realize Dynotech used zzp input shafts too right.

    The 4340 from zzp is $100 cheaper than intense-racing input shafts. Why don't you compare the strength of the zzp 300m shaft and intense input shaft. The intense shaft is still $25 more than the zzp shaft. I'll admit it does suck that the shaft broke. If ZZP replaced the shaft, I would say thats pretty darn good of them. Most companies won't warranty aftermarket parts for this reason.

    Even though intense has their input shafts made by the same company as GM racing does, the shafts are to totally different shafts. The GM Racing shaft looses the lock up feature of the torque converter, which allows them to have a thicker shaft and eleminate the seal groove.
    1997 Black GTP 72k (4dr), 3.5 Pulley, Wbody Downpipe, Wbody Shift kit (street), DHP 1.0, NGK TR55ix Spark Plugs, GMP Handling kit, KYB AGX Struts, AT Italia Inox 245x45x18 Goodyear Eagle F1, GMPP Springs, Corvette C5 Calipers, Blazertech 3200, DHP Powertuner (97-03), Built Trans, Torsen Diff
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ91284 View Post
    You do realize Dynotech used zzp input shafts too right.

    The 4340 from zzp is $100 cheaper than intense-racing input shafts. Why don't you compare the strength of the zzp 300m shaft and intense input shaft.

    And like I said, I think the Intense Shafts have a better track record than ZZPs. I've heard of a few ZZP shafts failing in the last year on the other board. I still think the Intense Shaft is still a better piece. But thats my opinion.


    The intense shaft is still $25 more than the zzp shaft. I'll admit it does suck that the shaft broke. If ZZP replaced the shaft, I would say thats pretty darn good of them. Most companies won't warranty aftermarket parts for this reason.

    Whats $25 when building a $2,000-$3,000 tranny? Nothing at all. If you buy the Input shaft because of that difference alone.... Not going to even say it.

    ZZP ain't going to replace the shaft. There not as great of a company as you think they are. I'm sure there going to give me $200 for the time and trouble on the POS fuel rails they sent me 2 years ago? Uh huh... They wouldn't even exchange them without me paying an upgrade free. Doesn't make sense when you send the customer something thats a POS and leaks a month later and creates a fire hazzard for you.


    Even though intense has their input shafts made by the same company as GM racing does, the shafts are to totally different shafts. The GM Racing shaft looses the lock up feature of the torque converter, which allows them to have a thicker shaft and eleminate the seal groove.
    [/quote]


    Well state the obvious. I never said get the Intense shaft because the same company who makes the GMPP makes there input shaft.
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GT Level Member JJ91284's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Schaumburg, IL
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Indian View Post
    And like I said, I think the Intense Shafts have a better track record than ZZPs. I've heard of a few ZZP shafts failing in the last year on the other board. I still think the Intense Shaft is still a better piece. But thats my opinion.





    Whats $25 when building a $2,000-$3,000 tranny? Nothing at all. If you buy the Input shaft because of that difference alone.... Not going to even say it.

    ZZP ain't going to replace the shaft. There not as great of a company as you think they are. I'm sure there going to give me $200 for the time and trouble on the POS fuel rails they sent me 2 years ago? Uh huh... They wouldn't even exchange them without me paying an upgrade free. Doesn't make sense when you send the customer something thats a POS and leaks a month later and creates a fire hazzard for you.




    Well state the obvious. I never said get the Intense shaft because the same company who makes the GMPP makes there input shaft.

    Don't be so sure. Search clubgp for a guy within the last year that broke one. They had him send it in and he got a replacement. Its better to try than to assume
    1997 Black GTP 72k (4dr), 3.5 Pulley, Wbody Downpipe, Wbody Shift kit (street), DHP 1.0, NGK TR55ix Spark Plugs, GMP Handling kit, KYB AGX Struts, AT Italia Inox 245x45x18 Goodyear Eagle F1, GMPP Springs, Corvette C5 Calipers, Blazertech 3200, DHP Powertuner (97-03), Built Trans, Torsen Diff
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ91284 View Post
    In all fairness guys, zzp more than likely sells 10 times the number of input shafts as intense-racing. Their's bound to be failures.

    I kinda doubt this. The Intense shaft is a bit more popular than you think. Hell it was out years before ZZP came out with theres. IIRC Dynotech and even Trannyman themselves use Intense shafts for a reason.

    Street Wolf ain't the only S/C car whos trashed one of these shafts, I've seen it before on the other board.
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ91284 View Post
    That input shaft looks like it was broke because of Shock Loading. I'm guessing it either broke at a launch with slicks, or it snapped via a hard downshift.

    If it won't take the abuse of slicks, than why upgrade it? The whole point of getting the input shaft is not only to take the cars power level (if its a high HP/TQ car) and agressive shifting, but to run with slicks too. Thats why I have an input shaft, i'm running slicks.
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GT Level Member JJ91284's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Schaumburg, IL
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Indian View Post
    If it won't take the abuse of slicks, than why upgrade it? The whole point of getting the input shaft is not only to take the cars power level (if its a high HP/TQ car) and agressive shifting, but to run with slicks too. Thats why I have an input shaft, i'm running slicks.
    If you look at his sig, he's got some decent power but look at his trans setup

    4000 stall and 3.69 gears. I don't know if he was launching, but that setup with some sticky tires and high shift pressure can and will do a number on parts.
    1997 Black GTP 72k (4dr), 3.5 Pulley, Wbody Downpipe, Wbody Shift kit (street), DHP 1.0, NGK TR55ix Spark Plugs, GMP Handling kit, KYB AGX Struts, AT Italia Inox 245x45x18 Goodyear Eagle F1, GMPP Springs, Corvette C5 Calipers, Blazertech 3200, DHP Powertuner (97-03), Built Trans, Torsen Diff
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #11 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    Donating Users chrisb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bucyrus, OH
    Posts
    404
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    I dont know about anyone else but when i buy a part for my car i expected it to last and be well made. And i realize that i may exceed the the limits of such aftermarket parts, but trusting a companies claim and then that part not delivering what was claimed is bs. the shafts arent rated conservative imo and should be, to error on the safe side. plus they should just sell the
    300m and get rid of the 4340 to make it a final upgrade.
    99 Grand Prix old build- CAI, Custom exhaust, HV3, Stage 2 TB, custom tune, ported heads intense s1x cam, headers.
    Nothing great Just a small T66 Turbo with a Hv3 On a stock tranny untill i finish the other one.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #12 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ91284 View Post
    If you look at his sig, he's got some decent power but look at his trans setup

    4000 stall and 3.69 gears. I don't know if he was launching, but that setup with some sticky tires and high shift pressure can and will do a number on parts.

    Sure parts are going to wear, but in such a short time? And keep in mind, sure he has Nitrous, but he is by no means heavily modded. No heads, cam, high compressioin, different power adder (Turbo) etc. He could put ALOT more through it than he has on it now. Theres alot more that could be made. His car does run good I will. I've meet him and seen his car in person before.

    IMO, even with a 150 shot and his mod list on slicks, the input shaft should last for a bit anyway. Hell I knew of a guy in San Antonio (Met him at ACS 3 in 2005) running similiar mods, with 150 shot IIRC he was high stalled running slicks and 12.30s and he had Intense hard parts for several years.
    Last edited by Iron Indian; 09-03-2009 at 11:23 PM.
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #13 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GT Level Member JJ91284's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Schaumburg, IL
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Indian View Post
    Sure parts are going to wear, but in such a short time? And keep in mind, sure he has Nitrous, but he is by no means heavily modded. No heads, cam, high compressioin, different power adder (Turbo) etc. He could put ALOT more through it than he has on it now. Theres alot more that could be made. His car does run good I will. I've meet him and seen his car in person before.

    IMO, even with a 150 shot and his mod list on slicks, the input shaft should last for a bit anyway. Hell I knew of a guy in San Antonio (Met him at ACS 3 in 2005) running similiar mods, with 150 shot IIRC he was high stalled running slicks and 12.30s and he had Intense hard parts for several years.
    Metal doesn't care how much power you put out. I would bet some serious cash that a 4340 input shaft could handle 600 hp. If the power is gradually added its fine, if the power/torque hits HARD, parts snap. It doesn't care about hp, it cares about shock load. This is a very important concept in structural aeronautical design.
    1997 Black GTP 72k (4dr), 3.5 Pulley, Wbody Downpipe, Wbody Shift kit (street), DHP 1.0, NGK TR55ix Spark Plugs, GMP Handling kit, KYB AGX Struts, AT Italia Inox 245x45x18 Goodyear Eagle F1, GMPP Springs, Corvette C5 Calipers, Blazertech 3200, DHP Powertuner (97-03), Built Trans, Torsen Diff
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #14 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GT Level Member Swash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Excelsior Springs, MO
    Posts
    448
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ91284 View Post
    Metal doesn't care how much power you put out. I would bet some serious cash that a 4340 input shaft could handle 600 hp. If the power is gradually added its fine, if the power/torque hits HARD, parts snap. It doesn't care about hp, it cares about shock load. This is a very important concept in structural aeronautical design.
    I'm sure that fatigue played a good-sized role in this breakage - and probably all of the others. I'm NOT saying or implying that these were misused or abused - but using them within the construct for which they were purchased - which will cause stress fatigue - there's no getting around it.

    3 components for fatigue resistance:
    - avoid sharp changes in section - FAIL
    - achieve the best, and most consistent; surface finish possible - FAIL
    - compressive stress (shot peening or fillet rolling on a cylindrical radius) - FAIL

    4340, 300m, Aermet (100, 310, 310...take your pick) - will all suffer from shock load stress fatigue. It's the process in which the machining, finishing, Q&T, etc are all done that makes the difference.

    Bottom line - he isn't gettting that shaft replaced, no refund, not even a reach around. Add it to the list of issues that ZZP has had...it's kinda like my johnson...long.

    -Swash
    I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am...
    2004 IBM/Black/A4 GTO -- 1 of 273 - and the slowest
    2002 Galaxy Silver GTP - a few mods - sold
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #15 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Swash View Post
    I'm sure that fatigue played a good-sized role in this breakage - and probably all of the others. I'm NOT saying or implying that these were misused or abused - but using them within the construct for which they were purchased - which will cause stress fatigue - there's no getting around it.

    3 components for fatigue resistance:
    - avoid sharp changes in section - FAIL
    - achieve the best, and most consistent; surface finish possible - FAIL
    - compressive stress (shot peening or fillet rolling on a cylindrical radius) - FAIL

    4340, 300m, Aermet (100, 310, 310...take your pick) - will all suffer from shock load stress fatigue. It's the process in which the machining, finishing, Q&T, etc are all done that makes the difference.

    Bottom line - he isn't gettting that shaft replaced, no refund, not even a reach around. Add it to the list of issues that ZZP has had...it's kinda like my johnson...long.

    -Swash

    Good point, you're right...
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #16 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    I say it with pictures Abrasive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Odessa, MO
    Posts
    1,586
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Swash View Post
    Add it to the list of issues that ZZP has had...it's kinda like my johnson...long.

    -Swash
    Oh, I laughed until I cried. Can't wait to see you this week Swash. A shame we live within an hour of each other and I only get to see you once a year.

    Master Certified Auto Glass Technician - 23+ yrs in the biz.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #17 Re: 4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck 
    GXP Level Member Iron Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,619
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ91284 View Post
    Metal doesn't care how much power you put out. I would bet some serious cash that a 4340 input shaft could handle 600 hp. If the power is gradually added its fine, if the power/torque hits HARD, parts snap. It doesn't care about hp, it cares about shock load. This is a very important concept in structural aeronautical design.

    Sometimes you just can't polish a turd, that being the 4340.

    600 HP huh? LOL, ok. I'm sure the many others who broke them were putting out around 600 HP too...
    Shawn W. Larsen

    2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0 LS2/A4... Stalled/Cam Only: 406 RWHP , 370 RWTQ

    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. G8 ST ??? yeah its real!
    By GTPJOE90 in forum Off Topic Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 11-27-2008, 01:40 PM
  2. Im getting the recall done! Yeah!
    By Freebeer187 in forum 3.8L V6 Supercharged (L67)(L32)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-18-2008, 03:41 PM
  3. So... yeah, WTF is this?
    By Street Wolf in forum Off Topic Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-22-2008, 02:17 PM
Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •