New issues tuning.. HPT not seeing knock but areoforce will?

[blknbstd]

after my last set back of fueling i met up with my tuner and started adjusting my afr.. got it to a 11.8 at wot went to adjust timing, it was set a 16 and move it too 18 did a pull but it wouldn't command the 18* and wouldnt let the high oct or low oct maps adjust.. HPT was showing no KR, but we un plugged hpt an plugged in my areoforce and is saying 5-6* of kr? Just a reminder im on water meth on a 50/50 mix with a 3gal per hour nozzel...

[matt5112]

What did HPT say the commanded timing was versus the aero?

11.8 before meth?

[blknbstd]

command was 11.8 or 11.7 and thats where it sit at wot.. on my wideband.

[matt5112]

Didn't answer either question.

[blknbstd]

wow sorry i read tooooo fast.. no i didnt look at the timing on the areoforce.. and the 11.8 is with meth spraying.

[matt5112]

Might not help with the mystery KR, but 11.8 is on the lean side of things.

Might want to aim for 11.0-11.4.

[blknbstd]

timing on the aero was 15 at wot and 6-8* of kr

[matt5112]

What did HPT say the commanded timing was?

[blknbstd]

we put it back to 16 when we found the kr

[FastCityCars]

I am his tuner.

From my experience with force inducted cars 11.6-11.8 is the sweet spot for fueling 11.0 is too rich. When we noticed he knock i remembered him saying about when he was fueling 10.3 he had knock also. That doesn't make sense, especially with water/meth.

Have these cars been known to phantom knock or anything that would show fake kr?

[matt5112]

we put it back to 16 when we found the kr

So what did HPT say the commanded was before you went back down to 16?

I am his tuner.

From my experience with force inducted cars 11.6-11.8 is the sweet spot for fueling 11.0 is too rich. When we noticed he knock i remembered him saying about when he was fueling 10.3 he had knock also. That doesn't make sense, especially with water/meth.

Have these cars been known to phantom knock or anything that would show fake kr?

Even with an uncooled M90? They're quite terrible power adders.

If you were intercooled or were using something more efficient I'd see no issue with that range.

Yes but the quickest way to check is increase octane and watch kr.

Or put a larger pulley on.

Or lower timing advance.

These cars can knock from being too rich apparently.

Never seen that one first hand though.

If you aimed for 11.6-12.0 before meth and 11.3 with meth that'd make more sense.

OP mentioned commanded matched actual. Is that with meth? If so, somethings not right in the tune.

[FastCityCars]

With the cooling of the water/meth system I dont really see 11.8 being a problem, but I will lower the AFR to see what happens. I am not opposed to that.

I will see if we can add some octane to the tank and see what happens with the KR.

Tune is set at 16.3* and it was only showing from a range of 12-14 actual. That just doesnt seem right with a meth/water added car, but that is just me.

Thanks for talking this through. I have tune a lot of cars, I just need to learn this model a little more I guess, not affraid to admit. There is nothing in the actual tune that I have not seen so that is good.

[blknbstd]

Ttt

fyi I put on my 3.8 pulley and still have 7-8 * kr

[dsmuts]

If you swapped back to stock pulley and your still getting the same amount of kr then it's probably false knock. Look at your headers and see if the dp is hitting or the trans dipstick is hitting or anything out of the ordinary.

[blknbstd]

what about a case learn? some say that can get rid of it? here is i vid of it acting up..
Movie_0001.wmv - YouTube

[matt5112]

Why are you running 15.x at idle?

Have you checked to see if your WB is accurate?

You're making lots of blower whine while your AFR's are still in the 12's.

Honestly even in 480P and in fullscreen mode I cannot make out any of the Aero readings.

I'd much rather see an HPT log file with a cfg file.

[blknbstd]

Just wanna give an update. Got the KR issues resolved getting a bigger nozzle for my water/Meth then we'll tune timing an wrap it up got afr at 11.2 to 11.4 at most.. so were good there an a blip of KR at top rpms since its already 95 degrees out here

[FastCityCars]

Sucks the car only wants 12.5-14 of timing at 11.4ish at top end with the water meth. Hoping the larger nozzle will help with the. Timing and heat of the blower.

[darkhorizon]

meth/water injection has been proven time and time again to be a power decreaser not a power adder in these setups. Try a straight meth setup with some quality meth before giving up on it... but I wouldnt expect the magic these meth companies advertise.

[FastCityCars]

I have never seen a meth/water, when tune, a power decreaser. I am not giving up on it that is why I am having him get another size nozzle. Since we added octane and the knock suppressed a bit I will keep adding more meth water to get where we want.