Should I remove the resonator AND the cat?

[DnaProdigy]

Hey BwolfGT . . . but you did say something . . . you said you read it.

Bob

Hey bob, welcome to the forums. We are a very close knit community here so if you would like to utilize this website without hassle i suggest you refrain from initiating conflict with our members.

Well . . . hate spoil your dreams - "Dreama" but what you did was illegal. I hope you are not going to college in California because in some places here, they would confiscate the car, give you only a few days to put the cat BACK on, have it certified OEM complete by an EPA approved lab (including a stock or APPROVED PCM tune) and smogged to pass, and if you did not do it - depending on where it is they could order the vehicle off road use only and yank the registration- or order the car crushed in addition to a hefty fine. If you were caught street racing with it - it would likely get crushed in some areas.

Yes bob you are correct! As per USPCA all exaust modifications are illegal including and not limited to PMC modifications that regulate exhaust.

What you are FAILING to miss is the priority level. Seeking out, arresting and prosecuting individuals who have exhaust modifications is as low on the priority list as things get.

Have you ever traveled over the speed limit Bob? Even one mile? Then you too are breaking the law, publishable by fine and license points all the way up to jail time. Will you get pulled over going 1 MPH over the speed limit? MAYBE one time in 10,000.

If you could provide me with evidence that a vehicle was actually crushed because it had an exhaust modification i would love to review it! and then ask you to find another. I will repeat this until you could find me 5, which we both know is unlikely.

Perhaps where you are they look the other way, but you just made your vehicle unable to be sold in many states. The guy who did this for you - if he has a real business could face a hefty fine for doing it, and likely did so because there is value in the stainless steel and platinum from scrapping the catalytic converter. So in essence he stole from you to sell your precious metals - unless he gave them back to you of course.

Looking the other way and setting priorities are different things, as i have evidenced earlier. Stole from him? A used catalytic converter for our vehicles is ~$100 AT BEST. Exhaust work whereby a technician replaces your cat with a strait pipe is worth well over that price. So the shop stole nothing, traded at best. In fact unless the downpipe is replaced the shop chopped out the converter making its value go down even less.

It is also a Federal offense to tamper with or defeat any part of the emission control system and any vehicle 1975 or newer.

Could you please provide some documentation on this?

The reason you cannot find an Oxygen Sensor simulator is because the leading set of fools who brazenly broke the law and sold these things - Casper's Electronics were halted, fined and basically destroyed by the EPA for making those devices. It was a $75,000 fine, they had to refund all money, and recall every single one of them. Read about it here => Casper's Electronics, Inc. | Civil Enforcement | Compliance and Enforcement | US EPA So . . . NOBODY will sell those things now - because even if they are caught trying to sell one on eBay - eBay and the seller will get fined. The injunction covers anyone who participates in promoting or selling such a device.

I could get you 3 links in 3 minutes of stores selling O2 sensor. At your request i will, but you can go ahead and trust me on this.

I do fuel injection systems - and you say you removed (or want to remove) the Oxygen Sensor - also a Federal offense - and this is what controls the fuel injection system.

Removing the rear O2 (what he is talking about) does nothing of the sort.

All advice on the Internet is not good advice

You are giving advice on the internet... The beauty of the forms is that many people will have a different viewpoint on what to do. It is the posters decision in the long run about how to modify their own vehicle. Many of us on here are a wealth of knowledge about these vehicles and mostly our advice is very sound and tested.

If you are here to learn a thing or two about the 3800 sit back and read around. We will be glad to help you.

Again welcome.

[BwolfGT]

or order the car crushed in addition to a hefty fine. If you were caught street racing with it - it would likely get crushed in some areas.

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and likely did so because there is value in the stainless steel and platinum from scrapping the catalytic converter. So in essence he stole from you to sell your precious metals

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It is also a Federal offense to tamper with or defeat any part of the emission control system and any vehicle 1975 or newer.

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NOBODY will sell those things now - because even if they are caught trying to sell one on eBay - eBay and the seller will get fined. The injunction covers anyone who participates in promoting or selling such a device.

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the Oxygen Sensor - also a Federal offense - and this is what controls the fuel injection system

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I am 53

= Senile?

[bobburns]

First, since I have a degree in Law, my best guess is none of you have a degree in anything.

Second, since Casper's was found by Justice Department officials surfing the web, all of you continue to holler loud and proud your lawlessness and they can find you and this site too.

Third, this guy asked, and I gave him the correct answers and maybe not what he wanted to hear but it is the correct answer.

Fourth, as to DNAprodigy's question for proof of crushed cars there is picture of SIX stacked on top of another all crushed - wheels and all with one of the ex-owners standing there looking at what was once his pride and joy on the front page of the Los Angeles Times for June 21, 2007 and I would have attached it, but your site will not allow the upload - it fails as to both PDF and JPG - under the listed sizes allowed - so look it up yourself. Crushing street racing | Bottleneck Blog | Los Angeles Times They do not have the picture I have of the six of them stacked up. [google for more] I never said anyone would be sought out and arrested, but that would mean the reader would need to know the distinction between civil and criminal law - and since no one here is I am sure with a law degree - I am sure I can forget any understanding there from anyone here. I am not here to debate with someone so clearly wrong. Never argue with a fool, most listens cannot tell which is which

Fifth, I fully expected largely absolutely completely juvenile responses most of which would be wrong - and they are. If anyone can actually find and read the anti-tampering provision of the Clean Air Act you will find what is unlawful to remove or replace without it being an approved replacement - period. Caspers had your kind of attitude right up until they had given in pay up and loose big.

Sixth, I have a Chevy 350 that is roots blown with a GM Eaton setup that came off of Grand Prix and absolutely I am sure gets way better mileage than anything anyone is driving here; (even though it it BIGGER); is street legal under OEM emissions spec; has dual fueling systems and from what I see is way too technologically advanced for anyone here to understand. The only difference bewteen it and a 2009 GM LS9 is it is a LS9 from 1974 casting block (four bolt main) upgraded all the way to a 2009 version.

So, seventh, I am nowhere near "senile" - I own an alternative fueling company and work with the EPA on targeting trends and we are looking at who to make an example of next int he coming wave of legislation aimed at Cap and Trade enforcement policies.

Eighth, you young men do not know who you are talking to when you spout off, but you are all trackable through your handles, what you put in print and IP registrations, and you stupidity shows among some of you. I could be a lawyer - (a.k.a I have a Law Degree) or a Judge or the EPA itself. Are you all that stupid? I guess so. The government is considering policing the Internet more strenuously as to this kind of behavior, websites and beliefs. You've been advised of such.

Ninth, my mission was to look for sites to spend advertising dollars at and whose sites to block from receiving our ads.

I think I have just about enough info from this site.

I had not intended to waste time returning here - but from a pestering email from the post I left. Since I cannot see how to unsubscribe from the posts of this forum - I do not need the forum - I run this kind of business and no one here can offer me any information of any value to me except nutcases are really alive and well on the Internet.

I will not sell to sorts like you here, becasue like Caspers, I must bear responsibility for the items we vend, and this is not the place to offer anyone the products we have.

While I am at it - I might contact some the sponsors whose ads are showing and tell them what they are spending money on here - and then maybe the moderator/owner will think twice before letting this kind of buck wild lawless behavior run loose on the sire and destroy it's commercial value and appeal.

Lastly - to Liquifire - what i said was 100% percent accurate. Removing ANY part of the emission control system to defeat it's purpose is unlawful under Federal and most state laws.

Wow, today's young are really fools I see.

Bye now - Bob

unsubscribing from site

[DnaProdigy]

Hey Bob, its unfortunate you have to leave! A little friendly debate never hurt anyone, you have a law degree you should like to debate, no?

First, since I have a degree in Law, my best guess is none of you have a degree in anything.

I do not understand your reasoning? You have a degree in Law = We don't have any degree? I graduated a prestigious university with High Honers in psychology BTW.

Second, since Casper's was found by Justice Department officials surfing the web, all of you continue to holler loud and proud your lawlessness and they can find you and this site too.

I find it so interesting how people with a background in law and politics handle arguments. They essentially ignore facts that make them look wrong and supplement things with other (irrelevant) correct facts. As i stated it would be a waste of time and money for Police to find, arrest and prosecute those who are illegally modifying their exhaust.

Third, this guy asked, and I gave him the correct answers and maybe not what he wanted to hear but it is the correct answer.

I find it interesting how the elderly neglect to recognize the word "opinion". You stated you opinion, not a right/wrong answer as a factual question was never posed.

Fourth, as to DNAprodigy's question for proof of crushed cars there is picture of SIX stacked on top of another all crushed - wheels and all with one of the ex-owners standing there looking at what was once his pride and joy on the front page of the Los Angeles Times for June 21, 2007 and I would have attached it, but your site will not allow the upload - it fails as to both PDF and JPG - under the listed sizes allowed - so look it up yourself. Crushing street racing | Bottleneck Blog | Los Angeles Times They do not have the picture I have of the six of them stacked up. [google for more] I never said anyone would be sought out and arrested, but that would mean the reader would need to know the distinction between civil and criminal law - and since no one here is I am sure with a law degree - I am sure I can forget any understanding there from anyone here. I am not here to debate with someone so clearly wrong. Never argue with a fool, most listens cannot tell which is which

"Six vehicles were destroyed at an auto graveyard as local law enforcement ramped up enforcement against illegal street racing, which is responsible for or suspected in 13 deaths in Southern California since March" Again as i stated earlier substituting a correct, but irrelevant, piece of information to make oneself look right. Can you now please go find me an article where ONE vehicle was crushed because of an exhaust modification as i requested before?

Fifth, I fully expected largely absolutely completely juvenile responses most of which would be wrong - and they are. If anyone can actually find and read the anti-tampering provision of the Clean Air Act you will find what is unlawful to remove or replace without it being an approved replacement - period. Caspers had your kind of attitude right up until they had given in pay up and loose big.

Read the entire thing bob. This is why i understand, again, that seeking out and busting people for illegal exhaust mods is as low as it gets on the Police priority list.

Sixth, I have a Chevy 350 that is roots blown with a GM Eaton setup that came off of Grand Prix and absolutely I am sure gets way better mileage than anything anyone is driving here; (even though it it BIGGER); is street legal under OEM emissions spec; has dual fueling systems and from what I see is way too technologically advanced for anyone here to understand. The only difference bewteen it and a 2009 GM LS9 is it is a LS9 from 1974 casting block (four bolt main) upgraded all the way to a 2009 version.

You needed a part from our vehicle to get where you are?! We are flattered! Technologically advanced for us? You didn't know the rear o2 on a GP does not effect fuel trims? Kind of lowers your credibility to judge who is and isn't capable of understand technology now doesn't it?

Ps. you don't want to have a spitting contest over who can get better mpg...

So, seventh, I am nowhere near "senile" - I own an alternative fueling company and work with the EPA on targeting trends and we are looking at who to make an example of next int he coming wave of legislation aimed at Cap and Trade enforcement policies.

Oh now your agenda is evident ergo your extremely bias responses.

Eighth, you young men do not know who you are talking to when you spout off, but you are all trackable through your handles, what you put in print and IP registrations, and you stupidity shows among some of you. I could be a lawyer - (a.k.a I have a Law Degree) or a Judge or the EPA itself. Are you all that stupid? I guess so. The government is considering policing the Internet more strenuously as to this kind of behavior, websites and beliefs. You've been advised of such.

Priorities... If it was that important they wouldn't be "considering policing the Internet more strenuously as to this kind of behavior" they would be doing it. And we know you have a law degree thanks.

Ninth, my mission was to look for sites to spend advertising dollars at and whose sites to block from receiving our ads.I think I have just about enough info from this site.

If you knew even an ounce about marketing and advertising you would be ware that its purpose is to generate sales and revenue for a corporation. You would also know that it is irresponsible for an individual person to eliminate an entire target market because they had a bad experience on a forum. U have a law degree tho so you know that.

I had not intended to waste time returning here - but from a pestering email from the post I left. Since I cannot see how to unsubscribe from the posts of this forum - I do not need the forum - I run this kind of business and no one here can offer me any information of any value to me except nutcases are really alive and well on the Internet.

Name calling insinuates frustration. Are you frustrated bob that we had elegant and insightful responses to your banter?

I will not sell to sorts like you here, becasue like Caspers, I must bear responsibility for the items we vend, and this is not the place to offer anyone the products we have.

Its because not "because". And bear responsibility for what? You vend alternative fueling... Again closing down advertising to potential customers is irresponsible.

While I am at it - I might contact some the sponsors whose ads are showing and tell them what they are spending money on here - and then maybe the moderator/owner will think twice before letting this kind of buck wild lawless behavior run loose on the sire and destroy it's commercial value and appeal.

Kind of empty threat. Again if you knew about marketing and advertising you would understand that generating sales is a priority over the opinions of a few members on a forum.

Wow, today's young are really fools I see.

Bye now - Bob

unsubscribing from site

You'll be back to read this

[TheOtherNick]

The rear 02 just tells the computer if the cat is working. So it kinda does control emissions. It will set the ses light and the driver will normally take it to a shop and have the cat fixed. The rear 02 does not control fuel trims directly. The only way it will change the trims is on 01+ cars when the rear 02 is removed they can get stuck in the cat diagnostic mode flooding the car with fuel to see if the cat reacts to this. Since there is no cat or 02 it will not change the reading so it will stay in that mode. I put an 02 sim in mine and no longer have that problem. That method works for some and not for others I do not know why.