Thread: Should I remove the resonator AND the cat?

Originally Posted by MidnightSpecial

rynoman03 - The only reason it does sound good with your setup is because of that Glass-pack, Without it they sound like crap, seriously when I rev it there is an instant high pitched ricey-buzz-craptastic sound. I plan on welding in a 28" Glass-pack where the resonator used to be and hopefully this will eliminate that sound. Nice GTP btw. Almost a older brother to mine. I have a almost brand new set of projector lights I'll sell ya for dirt cheap if your interested. They look sweet on a Black GP especially.

Thanks... I try not to rev my motor though too. I'm currently saving for headers or I would take you up on the Projectors man.

Oh and if anyone wants to hear my exhaust before I put the cat-less DP in its on my Fquick account.

View Video on FQuick

did somebody say projectors for cheap

Originally Posted by SlowM90

My car don't sound like ass and its not raspy. It might be the exhaust system I have on it...but it sounded good and I wanted a little bit of a deeper sound so had the res. removed. Im VERY pleased with the way it sounds.

dont lie.

Thank you for keeping the res.! Yeah the u-bend delte is what gave you that power increase, zzp says its about 15 hp but idk if that's right I dont think it's quite THAT much. Youre next mod should DEFINATLEY be an FWI and a 180 thermostat before you get a PCM. Not only are those first two good, cheap mods but any off the shelf pcm will be set up for those mods. My opinion on the PCM would be overkill, everyone's will be different alot will say intense, but I've never heard of an overkill frying a motor intense has. Just whatever you do STAY AWAY from the ZZP pcm if you like your motor!! Good luck with the modding! You should read the safely modding your 3800 thread.

Originally Posted by dreama

yeah i was def. planning on the FWI and 180* t-stat...but i heard that aside from the super-power-awesomeness spawned from the FWI, it actually lowers your mpg?!?! is that true?

No. It will most likely remain unchanged, some people actually see very minor GAINS in mpg, but that's about it.

colder air = more fuel being used.

Originally Posted by Bio248

colder air = more fuel being used.

So open cone could increase my gas mileage too?
Well this is my next mod lol

What do I do about that sensor that goes in there though?

whatever you want, so long as it doesnt burn up from being too hot.

According to the HUD LOL

That crap ain't accurate...it is just a pretty light show

To Dreama:

Well . . . hate spoil your dreams - "Dreama" but what you did was illegal. I hope you are not going to college in California because in some places here, they would confiscate the car, give you only a few days to put the cat BACK on, have it certified OEM complete by an EPA approved lab (including a stock or APPROVED PCM tune) and smogged to pass, and if you did not do it - depending on where it is they could order the vehicle off road use only and yank the registration- or order the car crushed in addition to a hefty fine. If you were caught street racing with it - it would likely get crushed in some areas.

Perhaps where you are they look the other way, but you just made your vehicle unable to be sold in many states. The guy who did this for you - if he has a real business could face a hefty fine for doing it, and likely did so because there is value in the stainless steel and platinum from scrapping the catalytic converter. So in essence he stole from you to sell your precious metals - unless he gave them back to you of course.

It is also a Federal offense to tamper with or defeat any part of the emission control system and any vehicle 1975 or newer.

The reason you cannot find an Oxygen Sensor simulator is because the leading set of fools who brazenly broke the law and sold these things - Casper's Electronics were halted, fined and basically destroyed by the EPA for making those devices. It was a $75,000 fine, they had to refund all money, and recall every single one of them. Read about it here => Casper's Electronics, Inc. | Civil Enforcement | Compliance and Enforcement | US EPA So . . . NOBODY will sell those things now - because even if they are caught trying to sell one on eBay - eBay and the seller will get fined. The injunction covers anyone who participates in promoting or selling such a device.

If you are just starting college, you must be a young man, but I am 53 and have been working on cars - and GM cars in particular - for probably as many years as you are old, and removing the back pressure required for an engine to develop the best horsepower can have a lot of effects - too many of which there are to list here - but let me say - I do fuel injection systems - and you say you removed (or want to remove) the Oxygen Sensor - also a Federal offense - and this is what controls the fuel injection system. If you do that you will put the car into "limp home mode" and it will get poorer mileage and higher emissions.

You may think it runs better and faster - and it probably is, will and does - because you are pumping more fuel through it than required and it will decrease the life of the engine and also cause a host of other problems I will not even try to begin to list here.

Some other poster here made note of the sound of a V-6 without a good muffler system or a glass pack setup. Every time I hear some yahoo who has put on a performance muffler to get a "throaty" sound from anything other than a good ole' V-8 engine - I laugh. Anyone with half a brain and an ear can tell the difference the louder you make it. A four banger will always sound like a four banger - pure crap, and a six cylinder - V type or not - with always sound like a drone machine a little better than crap, and the only thing that will sound heathy, hearty and strong is a V-8 with dual exhausts and an equalizing cross-over, - and I am partial to the GM small block sound.

Of course no one here is going to like what I just said - but here is food for thought. Since what this guy did was illegal; and you did not know any better; I would march right back over there and tell him to put it all right back on - for the same price he took it off for - FREE - AND smog the car to guarantee it is running right as from the OEM. He is liable. If he does not do it - report it to the EPA and the Justice Department will pay him a visit and make him do so and maybe yank his business license if he has one. That covers your tail in the meantime.

There are lots of ways to get more horsepower and better mileage lawfully and that is what we do - but what you did Dreama ain't it - so there is said.

All advice on the Internet is not good advice. Do not take it off - put it back on.



Bob

Originally Posted by bobburns

To Dreama:

Well . . . hate spoil your dreams - "Dreama" but what you did was illegal. I hope you are not going to college in California because in some places here, they would confiscate the car, give you only a few days to put the cat BACK on, have it certified OEM complete by an EPA approved lab (including a stock or APPROVED PCM tune) and smogged to pass, and if you did not do it - depending on where it is they could order the vehicle off road use only and yank the registration- or order the car crushed in addition to a hefty fine. If you were caught street racing with it - it would likely get crushed in some areas.

Perhaps where you are they look the other way, but you just made your vehicle unable to be sold in many states. The guy who did this for you - if he has a real business could face a hefty fine for doing it, and likely did so because there is value in the stainless steel and platinum from scrapping the catalytic converter. So in essence he stole from you to sell your precious metals - unless he gave them back to you of course.

It is also a Federal offense to tamper with or defeat any part of the emission control system and any vehicle 1975 or newer.

The reason you cannot find an Oxygen Sensor simulator is because the leading set of fools who brazenly broke the law and sold these things - Casper's Electronics were halted, fined and basically destroyed by the EPA for making those devices. It was a $75,000 fine, they had to refund all money, and recall every single one of them. Read about it here => Casper's Electronics, Inc. | Civil Enforcement | Compliance and Enforcement | US EPA So . . . NOBODY will sell those things now - because even if they are caught trying to sell one on eBay - eBay and the seller will get fined. The injunction covers anyone who participates in promoting or selling such a device.

If you are just starting college, you must be a young man, but I am 53 and have been working on cars - and GM cars in particular - for probably as many years as you are old, and removing the back pressure required for an engine to develop the best horsepower can have a lot of effects - too many of which there are to list here - but let me say - I do fuel injection systems - and you say you removed (or want to remove) the Oxygen Sensor - also a Federal offense - and this is what controls the fuel injection system. If you do that you will put the car into "limp home mode" and it will get poorer mileage and higher emissions.

You may think it runs better and faster - and it probably is, will and does - because you are pumping more fuel through it than required and it will decrease the life of the engine and also cause a host of other problems I will not even try to begin to list here.

Some other poster here made note of the sound of a V-6 without a good muffler system or a glass pack setup. Every time I hear some yahoo who has put on a performance muffler to get a "throaty" sound from anything other than a good ole' V-8 engine - I laugh. Anyone with half a brain and an ear can tell the difference the louder you make it. A four banger will always sound like a four banger - pure crap, and a six cylinder - V type or not - with always sound like a drone machine a little better than crap, and the only thing that will sound heathy, hearty and strong is a V-8 with dual exhausts and an equalizing cross-over, - and I am partial to the GM small block sound.

Of course no one here is going to like what I just said - but here is food for thought. Since what this guy did was illegal; and you did not know any better; I would march right back over there and tell him to put it all right back on - for the same price he took it off for - FREE - AND smog the car to guarantee it is running right as from the OEM. He is liable. If he does not do it - report it to the EPA and the Justice Department will pay him a visit and make him do so and maybe yank his business license if he has one. That covers your tail in the meantime.

There are lots of ways to get more horsepower and better mileage lawfully and that is what we do - but what you did Dreama ain't it - so there is said.

All advice on the Internet is not good advice. Do not take it off - put it back on.



Bob

I'm not even gunna say anything. I'll let Bluegtp or Bio take this one.

bob, some of what you said is innacurate. He is talking about removing the cat and the rear 02 sensor, the vehicle will still have its front(main) 02 sensor. Even without the rear 02 you will not go into limp mode, and will not cause the vehicle to run any different at all. (The worst that will happen is that you will get a code thrown)The rear o2 sensor is there essentially to ensure that the cat is working correctly. The stocker is innefficient for performance and can be replaced with a hi-flow cat which would make it totally legal and a better performance gain over the stocker. Also, any code thrown from removing the cat can be removed via re programming the pcm. And yes, california is the worst when it comes to emmissions, and yes removing the cat technically makes it illegal for street use.

Originally Posted by bobburns

Hey BwolfGT . . . but you did say something . . . you said you read it.

Bob

Hey bob, welcome to the forums. We are a very close knit community here so if you would like to utilize this website without hassle i suggest you refrain from initiating conflict with our members.

Well . . . hate spoil your dreams - "Dreama" but what you did was illegal. I hope you are not going to college in California because in some places here, they would confiscate the car, give you only a few days to put the cat BACK on, have it certified OEM complete by an EPA approved lab (including a stock or APPROVED PCM tune) and smogged to pass, and if you did not do it - depending on where it is they could order the vehicle off road use only and yank the registration- or order the car crushed in addition to a hefty fine. If you were caught street racing with it - it would likely get crushed in some areas.

Yes bob you are correct! As per USPCA all exaust modifications are illegal including and not limited to PMC modifications that regulate exhaust.

What you are FAILING to miss is the priority level. Seeking out, arresting and prosecuting individuals who have exhaust modifications is as low on the priority list as things get.

Have you ever traveled over the speed limit Bob? Even one mile? Then you too are breaking the law, publishable by fine and license points all the way up to jail time. Will you get pulled over going 1 MPH over the speed limit? MAYBE one time in 10,000.

If you could provide me with evidence that a vehicle was actually crushed because it had an exhaust modification i would love to review it! and then ask you to find another. I will repeat this until you could find me 5, which we both know is unlikely.

Perhaps where you are they look the other way, but you just made your vehicle unable to be sold in many states. The guy who did this for you - if he has a real business could face a hefty fine for doing it, and likely did so because there is value in the stainless steel and platinum from scrapping the catalytic converter. So in essence he stole from you to sell your precious metals - unless he gave them back to you of course.

Looking the other way and setting priorities are different things, as i have evidenced earlier. Stole from him? A used catalytic converter for our vehicles is ~$100 AT BEST. Exhaust work whereby a technician replaces your cat with a strait pipe is worth well over that price. So the shop stole nothing, traded at best. In fact unless the downpipe is replaced the shop chopped out the converter making its value go down even less.

It is also a Federal offense to tamper with or defeat any part of the emission control system and any vehicle 1975 or newer.

Could you please provide some documentation on this?

The reason you cannot find an Oxygen Sensor simulator is because the leading set of fools who brazenly broke the law and sold these things - Casper's Electronics were halted, fined and basically destroyed by the EPA for making those devices. It was a $75,000 fine, they had to refund all money, and recall every single one of them. Read about it here => Casper's Electronics, Inc. | Civil Enforcement | Compliance and Enforcement | US EPA So . . . NOBODY will sell those things now - because even if they are caught trying to sell one on eBay - eBay and the seller will get fined. The injunction covers anyone who participates in promoting or selling such a device.

I could get you 3 links in 3 minutes of stores selling O2 sensor. At your request i will, but you can go ahead and trust me on this.

I do fuel injection systems - and you say you removed (or want to remove) the Oxygen Sensor - also a Federal offense - and this is what controls the fuel injection system.

Removing the rear O2 (what he is talking about) does nothing of the sort.

All advice on the Internet is not good advice

You are giving advice on the internet... The beauty of the forms is that many people will have a different viewpoint on what to do. It is the posters decision in the long run about how to modify their own vehicle. Many of us on here are a wealth of knowledge about these vehicles and mostly our advice is very sound and tested.

If you are here to learn a thing or two about the 3800 sit back and read around. We will be glad to help you.

Again welcome.