Removing rear O2 sensor on 01-newer PCMs -- Things you should know

**Sinister Performance** · 04-24-2012

Originally Posted by apierce1289

Mine is always at 14.7 no cat.

What is 14.7? The Air/Fuel ratio reading on the data scan from the PCM? That may not be a number you can trust. You either need to watch the narrow band O2 sensor voltage and fuel trims or install a wideband O2 to determine what is really going on. I guarantee you if the scan data says the engine is running at 14.7:1 AFR, it isn't actually doing exactly that. Hook up a wideband O2 and you'll understand what I mean. The "14.7:1" value displayed in a data scan is just the "desired" or "calculated" AFR the PCM is trying to attain. That isn't what is actually going out the tailpipe, I can assure you.

**LapeerGTP** · 04-24-2012

So i just opened up a stock 04 bin in tt and I do not see the cat diagnosis check in there.. is it called something else for 04??

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**Sinister Performance** · 04-24-2012

Tiny Tuner is all but worthless, in my opinion. The reason why you don't see the Cat Diagnostic check in Tiny Tuner for your 04 file is because it probably wasn't added for your specific 04 PCM's OS. So you will either need to add it yourself (and know how to do that and where it is in your particular OS), or find someone who knows where it is in the 04 OS you are using and have them add it to Tiny Tuner and then have them send you the updated Tiny Tuner definition file. Have fun with that. I've been told by people who actually write tuning software for a living that GM V6 applications have litterally hundreds of different OS's (operating systems). So just because someone found out where it was in 1 particular OS doesn't mean that can be applied to other OS's, not even for the same model year car with the same engine (because there were so many different OS's used).

07 applications SHOULD also have this diagnostic. I don't see why GM would have added it and then later removed it. I know in HP Tuners you have the option of disabling both the CAT and post-cat O2 diagnostics in SOME 2004-newer applications; but I think this is only applicable to the newer style CAN bus type PCMs and ECMs. Unfortunately, HP Tuners doesn't support any 2006-newer 3800 applications at all (and I doubt that will ever change).

**LapeerGTP** · 05-01-2012

So far I left the 02 in and I'm running headers, no cat, on a 04 and haven't set a code yet.. When I get the wide band 02 hooked up I see what the scans look like

**CrazyGuy03** · 05-01-2012

Give it time

My 03 would dump fuel , not noticeable until I had a Wideband. It would go to 11-12 AFR.

Doing a cam install made this hard to run without wanting to stall out. So I had to remove the cat test from my bin

**moddman** · 05-14-2012

Originally Posted by crazyguy03

Give it time

My 03 would dump fuel , not noticeable until I had a Wideband. It would go to 11-12 AFR.

Doing a cam install made this hard to run without wanting to stall out. So I had to remove the cat test from my bin

How did you remove it from your bin.......Please let us all know.......It will help all of us with our tuning....Thanks from everyone.....

**darkhorizon** · 05-01-2012

I've been told by people who actually write tuning software for a living that GM V6 applications have litterally hundreds of different OS's

You had to be told this? Its pretty stupid obvious as there are about 5 versions per model year, per model trim, per vehicle make... so do some math on the 10 year run all these cars made and its obvious that there are many of them. Luckily for us the templates are really similar to the point you only need to create a handful of maps to fully adjust all 400+ OSID's.

Care to give me the statistic on how many maps exist in CATS to support however many osid's it does support? I know there are about 13 in DHP that support 96-05 model year files.

The reason why you don't see the Cat Diagnostic check in Tiny Tuner for your 04 file is because it probably wasn't added for your specific 04 PCM's OS

Tiny Tuner is all but worthless, in my opinion

So add it yourself... Its a FREE program that is also open source... Try adding it in HPT lol.

I dont see you releasing your own open source tuning software, so why are you talking shi! about something that many people worked hard on to release? The truth is there is as much functionality in TT as there is in your overpriced cats software, and its a fact that there is more supported values in TT for one of the 02 map files.

**Sinister Performance** · 05-01-2012

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

You had to be told this? Its pretty stupid obvious as there are about 5 versions per model year, per model trim, per vehicle make... so do some math on the 10 year run all these cars made and its obvious that there are many of them. Luckily for us the templates are really similar to the point you only need to create a handful of maps to fully adjust all 400+ OSID's.

Care to give me the statistic on how many maps exist in CATS to support however many osid's it does support? I know there are about 13 in DHP that support 96-05 model year files.

So add it yourself... Its a FREE program that is also open source... Try adding it in HPT lol.

I dont see you releasing your own open source tuning software, so why are you talking shi! about something that many people worked hard on to release? The truth is there is as much functionality in TT as there is in your overpriced cats software, and its a fact that there is more supported values in TT for one of the 02 map files.

Where do I start...

You profess to be some kind of tuning expert. But you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. I've gotten all of your emails where you've asked me how to do things in a tune (or asked other automotive questions) because you didn't know yourself. And when I didn't answer those emails (because you like to talk smack about me on the forums), you searched the net for the answers. And when you found them, you got on your favorite forums and presented those answers in a way that made it sound like YOU came up with them (IE: copy and paste). YOU HAVEN'T HAD AN ORIGINAL IDEA OR SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM SINCE YOU'VE BEEN ON THE NET. Instead, you've hijacked other people's ideas and solutions and then presented them as your own. You are more of a fake than Loyde was.

So when are YOU going to roll out your OWN tuning software? You keep talkling like you are god's greatest gift to the tuning world but I have yet to see anything sold by your company. I'm not going to waste my time adding support for one OS when I don't have to. And for the record, I don't write tuning software I just use it to tune cars and build swaps. I probably could learn to write tuning software if I really wanted to but I DON'T HAVE THE TIME nor do I care to have that headache. FYI: I do have software from TunerCat that allows me to edit their definition files for both OBD1 and OBD2 calibrations which would allow me to add OS's and certain tuneable features to existing OS's. But again, it is a time issue. You obviously don't understand that; and you better not try. You better just stick to your 8-5 job that has nothing to do with cars at all. But feel free to get on here after-hours and pretend you know what you are talking about because we all know you don't. You've been laughed off more forums than I'm even a member of.

**CrazyGuy03** · 05-01-2012

i agree with DH , that is a dickish comment about TT when all that hard work went into and its free. Its worthless to you cause it either doesn't fit your platform or your not intelligent enough to know how to properly use it.

**Sinister Performance** · 05-01-2012

Originally Posted by crazyguy03

i agree with DH , that is a dickish comment about TT when all that hard work went into and its free. Its worthless to you cause it either doesn't fit your platform or your not intelligent enough to know how to properly use it.

TT didn't come along until DHP went under and a couple of other companies had already offered support for these V6 platforms. So I have to ask how much of TT was actually original and not ripped off of other peoples' (or companies') work that was already out there. Not that it really matters because I know some people, like DH, don't see anything wrong with that.

But that doesn't change the fact that TT is worthless without a 3rd party interface and bootloader that you'll need to reflash a PCM with that file you edited with TT in the first place.

There's no reason to bash companies that sell something to make a profit. DH has been bashing his whole e-life; but it hasn't gotten him anywhere.

Keep in mind that without companies like DHP, TC OBD2, HP Tuners, and some others, you wouldn't even have TT.

**CrazyGuy03** · 05-01-2012

That's why it's "tiny tuner" lol

**darkhorizon** · 05-02-2012

Keep in mind that without companies like DHP, TC OBD2, HP Tuners, and some others, you wouldn't even have TT.

Might also want to keep in mind that MOST of the development work in TT was done from scratch on top of the DHP database.....

But you can continue to make shi! up as you go along here.

**Sinister Performance** · 05-03-2012

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

Might also want to keep in mind that MOST of the development work in TT was done from scratch on top of the DHP database.....

But you can continue to make shi! up as you go along here.

So you are admitting whoever developed TT used information from another (copyrighted) software program to do it? If true, how am I making "stuff" up when I say: "that without companies like DHP, TC OBD2, HP Tuners, and some others, you wouldn't even have TT." ???

**darkhorizon** · 05-03-2012

Originally Posted by Sinister Performance

So you are admitting whoever developed TT used information from another (copyrighted) software program to do it? If true, how am I making "stuff" up when I say: "that without companies like DHP, TC OBD2, HP Tuners, and some others, you wouldn't even have TT." ???

Charles made it clear that the PT database was mostly a considered abandonware after he gave up on it, as he made it clear that no attempt to encrypt or even password protect the database. When eddie developed and released TT, he was involved with a few different legal type agreements with Charles... So it was quite clear that the whole TT development process was directed by Charles. There was quite a bit of extra work on top of the PT database that further developed a few specific OSID's that were commonly upgraded to so when simpletons like you look at some random OSID's and do not see major upgrades it is quite easy to come to conclutions.

**Sinister Performance** · 05-03-2012

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

when simpletons like you

So I'm a simpleton, huh? Who started this thread anyway? Who was it that figured out there was a problem in the first place with these diagnostics and made the info public? I didn't see your name anywhere in this thread for a long time. Nor did I see your name anywhere else on this subject until it became a well-known problem (thanks, at least in part to my work). Now all of a sudden, you are an expert on it. Just like how you are an expert on tuning software even though I haven't seen your name on ANYTHING sold or available for free download...

**FoSHO99** · 05-02-2012

Yeah I don't mind the debate being a little off topic but try to keep it a little friendlier. I'll clean up the bashing later.

**LapeerGTP** · 05-02-2012

Back on topic :-)

The p code finally showed up for cat test on my drive to work this morning.

Hopefully I'll get the wide band installed next weekend and see how bad its effecting things.

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**CrazyGuy03** · 05-02-2012

My post was to inform you how to remove the cat test. Hopefully mods will remove the BS

**apierce1289** · 05-02-2012

What I miss? Darn I'm always late to the party :-P

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**Pure2sin** · 05-03-2012

You guys are both saying the same thing but arguing about it.

I personally like TT and use it all the time. I don't see it as a rip off but an add-on to the DHP and HPT programs. Lately I have been using all 3 programs TT,HPT and DHP to look at/change files. Each of them have their own advantage.

From what I hear, Charles (the guy who owned DHP) is developing a new tuning program that he said will beat the pants off all the current products. When or if that will ever come out is the question. Last I saw, the software part of the tuner was already locked down but the hardware part was something he was checking into.