Thread: Very good article on Domestic vs Import

Another thing I don appreciate is you guys referring to me as a racist, thats basically what you're drawing this out to be.

I saying say some facts and all this happens. Its quite funny.

All I can say, is its funny there are people DUMB enough here that think Toyotas or what not are classified as american cars. There not, i'm sorry.

GM is not an import, its a domestic. No matter where they sub stuff out too. Sorry, thats how it is. Yet some of you are repeating the same stupid stuff over and over again. We know stuff is subbed elsewhere, why repeat it 10000000x!

I will always think of GM domestic. They may be built and assembled in other countries, but the engineering that goes into them was done here in the US. The ones who designed the parts should get the credit for the car, not the person that bolted the thing together. Anyone can hit a button to start a cnc machine, but could they design the part they are making? Some yes, most no. I think of Toyota as an import. Yes most of the car is built here in the US and that is great. We can use anything to help boost are economy. It sucks that the domestic car manufacturers are out sourcing jobs. The engineering factor can become gray to. Look at the heavy duty trucks. Ford's diesel the Powerstroke is produced by International. Dodge has a cummins diesel. Gm uses the duramax diesel produced by Isuzu a Japanese company. Does the make Ford more American than GM, I do not believe it does. The World is becoming smaller and smaller everyday. There is no way around finding that parts of American cars are being made in other countries. With car manufacturers buying out each other it also makes the area between import and domestic grayer. A good example of that I think is when Ford bought Jaguar, did that turn Jaguar into a domestic since it became part of the Ford motor company, I do not think it did. I still see Jaguar as a British car. That is my view on this, sorry for the book.

Originally Posted by 01GTP

I will always think of GM domestic. They may be built and assembled in other countries, but the engineering that goes into them was done here in the US.

The G8 was designed and built in Australia.

The Camaro's suspension was designed in Australia, base frame designed in Europe, drive train in the US, and sheet metal somewhere else (I forget the last one).

GM has design teams around the world. The G8 is more of an import than Iron Indian's so-called "imports". Apparently his definition of if a vehicle is an import or not rests solely on where that company's headquarters is.

Here's a question for Iron Indian. If Toyota of North America broke away from the rest of Toyota and started building cars on its own, would it still be an import? It's headquarters would be here, factories here, and the bulk of the parts made here.

Originally Posted by Sabrewings

Here's a question for Iron Indian. If Toyota of North America broke away from the rest of Toyota and started building cars on its own, would it still be an import? It's headquarters would be here, factories here, and the bulk of the parts made here.

Dont go asking trick questions like that now, play nice. Thats not going to compute

Guess who gives a sh*t about Chrysler? GM! Merger talks are back on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28288616/

Agreed. GM is not going to be in talks with someone that is insignificant.

Iron Indian, show me where someone has called you a racist. Show me that and I will deal with that. You said it yourself "I don appreciate is you guys referring to me as a racist", if that has been done either here or in a PM, I want to see it, otherwise please do not make stuff up.


Here's how I see this:

We have one person that argues GM, Ford, etc are domestic no matter what. States its a fact yet offers no real argument to prove that. That tells me that its just his opinion, which he has a right to. But when you state something as fact, or call something a fact that implies you have some sort of proof to demonstrate that information is indeed a fact. Stating something as fact has a legal connotation to it. That is to say, being factual can be defined by law.

So while one person here, among all those that have posted, can only contribute "this is fact, this is fact, this is fact, this is fact" while claiming everyone else is just repeating the same thing over and over whilst ignoring his on repeated statements with no substance, I'll offer some proof to the statement that myself and others have made here.

The American Automobile Labeling Act

For the purposes of Federal regulations, such as Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) and the American Automobile Labeling Act of 1992 (AALA), vehicles produced in the United States, regardless of brand, are considered "domestic", while vehicles produced outside the United States are considered "imported".

Thats a legal definition of what is considered domestic or import.

Here's some more. This is an article on the AALA from MSN
Defining an American Car - MSN Autos

Notice:

"She said consumers don't care about content anymore because they have seen in recent years how the auto industry has become global.

People are buying international cars now, Blumenthal said, adding "they want to buy the best."

Notice what it says about vehicles like the Saturn Vue, the PT Cruiser, the Volkswagon Beetle and so on.

Here is a report on the AALA National Highway Transportation Safety Administration:
American Automobile Labeling Act

Notice:

"The introduction of AALA labels in model year 1995 was not followed by a resurgence of U.S./Canadian parts content in the overall new-vehicle fleet, but rather a modest decline from an average of 70 percent in model year 1995 to 67.6 percent in model year 1998. The net effect, however, conceals two trends working in opposite directions.

Transplant vehicles (assembled in North America by foreign-based manufacturers) increased their proportion of U.S./Canadian parts from 47 to 59 percent and reduced their content of overseas parts. At first glance, that could be a response to the labels. But the strong, explicit terms of the 1995 U.S.-Japan Agreement and the current dearth of consumer interest in AALA's numerical parts-content scores intuitively suggest that the Agreement and earlier actions have had more influence than the AALA labels. (However, the parts-content scores on the AALA labels have helped Federal agencies monitor progress under the U.S.-Japan Agreement.)


The Big 3 reduced U.S./Canadian parts content from 89 to 84 percent in 1995-98, apparently by sourcing or purchasing more parts in Mexico. The net shift, in essence, is largely from overseas countries to Mexico, a plausible development given the North American Free Trade Act (NAFTA)."


To continue along, did you know that the Dodge Stealth (it was referred to as the Chrysler Stealth in some cases for some odd reason) was imported from Japan? The Cadallac was or maybe still is assembled in Europe by the Opel subsidiary? How about Honda and the fact that it produces most of its top selling Accord in Ohio, or the BMW Z3 Convertible is or was made in South Carolina.


Here are a few more facts to consider:


The U.S. federal government uses several approaches to determine the domestic content of vehicles sold in the United States. All of them define "domestic" as a geographic concept, rather than strictly by nation of ownership.


For regulating fuel-efficiency, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency considers a vehicle to be domestic if at least 75% of its content is produced in North America, including Canada and Mexico.



For setting import tariffs, the U.S. Department of Treasury, Customs Service considers a vehicle to be domestic if it has at least 50% U.S. or Canadian content.


For informing consumers, the American Automobile Labeling Act of 1992 (AAIA) considers a vehicle to be domestic if at least 85% of its parts originate in the U.S. or Canada; a part is counted as domestic if at least 70% of its content comes from the U.S. or Canada.


Those are the legal facts, not just hearsay or what I want to believe or what I personally determine to be fact, those are the legal definitions.

I will always think of GM domestic. They may be built and assembled in other countries, but the engineering that goes into them was done here in the US. The ones who designed the parts should get the credit for the car, not the person that bolted the thing together. Anyone can hit a button to start a cnc machine, but could they design the part they are making? Some yes, most no. I think of Toyota as an import. Yes most of the car is built here in the US and that is great. We can use anything to help boost are economy. It sucks that the domestic car manufacturers are out sourcing jobs. The engineering factor can become gray to. Look at the heavy duty trucks. Ford's diesel the Powerstroke is produced by International. Dodge has a cummins diesel. Gm uses the duramax diesel produced by Isuzu a Japanese company. Does the make Ford more American than GM, I do not believe it does. The World is becoming smaller and smaller everyday. There is no way around finding that parts of American cars are being made in other countries. With car manufacturers buying out each other it also makes the area between import and domestic grayer. A good example of that I think is when Ford bought Jaguar, did that turn Jaguar into a domestic since it became part of the Ford motor company, I do not think it did. I still see Jaguar as a British car. That is my view on this, sorry for the book.

Wow there are smart people here, the first useful post in this thread. Thanks for you input. Couldn't of said it better myself honestly.

I can't believe this is argued. So all domestic cars are imports and imports are domestics? Go say that to a few people or a few other forums, you'll get laughed at.

My only point was GM is a Domestic, thats it. Parts are made here and there yes, but its still a domestic cut and dry. How many times to I need to repeat myself? You are the dumbasses, not me.

Off topic: As for the racist stuff, it seems to me that you guys are drawing me into not liking anything foriegn which is painting the wrong picture for my character and I don't appreciate it. Thats my opinion. Just like how stupid you are Scotty, and you think GM is considered aN IMPORT car.

Off topic: And another thing, I don't appreciate you attacking me, a couple places you treat me like a 5 yr old IMO. You sir can go **** yourself IMO. I ain't gonna suck up to you like i've seen others in the past here and there. I don't suck up to anyone, not now, not ever. I'm not a leghumper and you can get ****ed if you think I will be. Not happening bubba. I'm more than happen to tell you this here or in person.

Originally Posted by Iron Indian

I can't believe this is argued. So all domestic cars are imports and imports are domestics? Go say that to a few people or a few other forums, you'll get laughed at.

No one said that.

Originally Posted by Iron Indian

My only point was GM is a Domestic, thats it. Parts are made here and there yes, but its still a domestic cut and dry. How many times to I need to repeat myself? You are the dumbasses, not me.

How is it a domestic when a lot of its cars aren't even made or designed here? You say its cut and dry. Point us to the cut and dry facts. Synth did an excellent job of presenting facts. So far you've just typed something out and said "believe me or you're wrong".

I don't like GM because its "domestic", and I don't dislike Honda, Toyota, and Nissan because they're "imports". I find real reasons to like and dislike them. I don't cling to GM because it gives me a hard-on in my American flag boxers.

Before you start to attack me for not being American for not hating the above mentioned manufacturers because they are "imports" as you claim, remember that I am currently defending my country every day. I don't need to let what car I like or dislike define my patriotism, since all cars are GLOBAL anyway.

I'm done with this. It's like arguing with a brick wall, or that's the extent of the worthwhile information we get out of the responses.

All I can say, I was born and raised into a domestic owning family so I believe owning a domestic is the best thing esp for the country, but thats my opinion only. I don't care who owns whats that my opinion. I never called anyone unamerican either, but I believe in supporting my country too. Again, my opinion.

The only point of this whole ordeal is GM being Domestic, thats it. There its been repeated again.

if it wasent domestic would you disown it????

i like the car for what it is. if there was a grandprix but it had a honda emblem on it, i would buy it. why, because it was a good car, not where it was made.

there just cars, dont really see the need to get all up tight about them.

opions are like assholes. everybody has one....

Originally Posted by Iron Indian

All I can say, I was born and raised into a domestic owning family so I believe owning a domestic is the best thing esp for the country, but thats my opinion only. I don't care who owns whats that my opinion. I never called anyone unamerican either, but I believe in supporting my country too. Again, my opinion.

The only point of this whole ordeal is GM being Domestic, thats it. There its been repeated again.

Would you go tell Americans making Toyatas, Nissans, BMWs, Mercedes, etc. that they aren't supporting their country? Would you say Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc. n'tsupporting their country because they gave deals for the companies to put their plants in their states?

Supporting your country doesn't mean blinding buying US World HQ products. You don't drink Budweiser, Miller, or Coors do you? Not domestic beers, by your domestic vs. import argument, since World HQs for those three companies are no longer in the US. Or do you only consider you domestic vs. import decisions on your cars?

You are reading way too much into things, I don't even consider or give a **** what youare mentioning. Can I have my own opinions on the car subject? Appearantly not. Beer? What the **** does that have to do with cars, nothing? And no, I really don't drink at all much if any but what does that have to do with anything? You're over analyzing every damn thing I say. Do you have something better to do? What are you gonna say next? What kinda Urinals I piss in when I go to Walmart? Come on guy, give me a break. We're on cars, specifically GM.

I'll say it again GM is a Domestic company. And last I checked, There world HQ is in Detroit which last I checked was in the USA. But since your and idiot and say its an import, its located in Detroit, China. How that? Does that make you happy? I sure hope so because you'll drag this on until the end with more useless ****.

So even though most of the profits for the G8 go to the Australian economy, it was designed in Australia, and it was built in Australia, its still a domestic. Got it.

Hey, you asked where world HQ is, I told ya. And since when did I deny that? Never. Again, throwing words in my mouth.

Oh wait, my bad. I gotta make you happy! Its Detroit, China and its an import. My bad....

well.... i will say. gm does have the soul of a domestic. the gtp has a pushrod old school set up motor. its something that i could go and work on with my dad (that was born in the 40's so hes very familar with 60's muscle) which was domestic. old school, came strait out of detroit. gm has the soul of that. if we were to pop the hood of a honda, we problew couldent tell you jack.

BUT at the same time... in the present age, gm has started out sourceing. thus making our beloved american cars, not so american.

get a big glass of sweet tea, now water it down. yes its still tea but its not really "sweet" tea anymore. thus what gm has done.

yes they are designed as american cars, but they are built in other, sometimes foregin countrys.

where do we draw the line???

Good point, good post. I agree with you. Thanks for your post.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

What makes a car American? - CNN.com

That's the first post. So what makes a car American is the world HQS, nothing else? Simple yes or no, Iron Indian.

Originally Posted by BADAZGTP

Yes GM, Ford, and Chrysler are labeled domestic and Honda, toyota, etc are labeled import, but with parts manufactured and assembled all over the world, how can that be upheld.

Therein lies the rub as it were. Thats what Ive been trying to discuss here, what is the definition of a domestic and an import. Legally speaking, and according to the American Automobile Labeling Act, and for the purposes of Federal Regulations that I pointed to earlier, the legal definition is that if it is produced in this country, regardless of brand, then its a domestic vehicle. If its produced outside the US, then its an import.

That, then, brings up the point of 'content'. How much 'content' of the car must be domestic for the car itself to be legally called a domestic brand. And I laid that out as well in my previous post.

This has been nothing more than (for the most part) a friendly discussion on what the legal definition of those terms are, not what one believes and it hasnt been a debate about the corporation itself, its been about the products that the corportation produces.

Its a muddy area to be sure. But it seems that at least leagally, if its produced on American soil, its legally called a domestic vehicle, at least for the purposes of labeling and regulations.

I think it would be interesting to see the sticker on the window of something like the G8 that is produced elsewhere and see what the sticker says in relation to domestic content as they are legally required to put that on the sticker. If anyone has seen one and knows, please post up.