I dont know why your posting in a gp forum. But I bet you could get 16 5 out the door. Dealers can read you look a book so if they can intimidate you, you wont stand a chance. I talked down a 13k car to 10 5 out the door when my g/f was looking. Didnt buy it, but it was fun. Famous line they use is " I gotta make some money off of it" or something close to that. I laughed at them and said I dont care if you make a penny.