today was the day

[ad356]

today was the day i bought my second GTP. i once had a 1997 GTP; sadly the floor was shot, she was rotted beyond repair. i always loved how that car loved to get up and go. i promised myself i would one day own another GTP. well today i am the proud owner of a cream puff, a really clean 2000 GTP L67. god i love the L67 an engine that was delivered from the gods. i also have another pontiac on the other side of the formerly once great brand. i have a 1996 bonneville SE, the wife's car and family hauler. i also love that bonne, its a clean car as well. i used to love GM well now im not so sure i would buy a new GM car or any new car for that matter. seems like most the cars built today come with 1.something gutless engines, all green peace junk and no go. you want real performance you gotta go expensive, $40,000 camaro L6's and similar. the idea of putting a supercharged v6 or a v8 in an average car seems to be dying. i was mad a GM for axing Pontiac and keeping mostly bland buick (execution of the grand national but that's old school and hasn't represented buick in 20 years) i also was equally mad at GM for killing probably one of the best engines they ever built 2nd to the small block chevy and old school pontiac 455. why could they not have continued the 3800, they made it for such a long time and it was always able to adapt to new emissions standards, got awesome fuel economy and is well loved for its durability and reliability (if you are aware of the problems like the plastic POS intakes on the NA engines). my GTP has 146K miles on it and was babied by the previous owner, virtually zero rust, light surface rust on the pinch welds, spotless floor and shock towers. it is going in for a rust-stop oil based rust prevention treatment friday.

i kind of wonder, are these cars going to be future collectors items, will it ever be like the grand national of the late 90's/early 2000's.

what about performance? seems like my other GTP was faster but it had some bolt ons (different supercharger pulley and when i bought it i was told it also had a tune) my current car is still fast but its bone stock. what can i do to with the performance and not sacrifice mileage? the used car dealer i bought it form told me that changing the supercharger pulley will net 30 more ft/lbs of torque and improve mileage. he told me that 33 mpg is possible with that MOD. jeeze, i loved these cars but i thought any mod that takes it away from stock will reduce mileage. is that true? this car seems to get good mileage i was getting in the 24-25 MPG, which i know there are yuppies that could complain about that but im thrilled. all of the performance and 24 MPG it doesnt get any better. i used to drive a 89 camaro that i swapped a 350 into and it was fast but it drank like a fish, even when you werent being hard on it.

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

what about performance? seems like my other GTP was faster but it had some bolt ons (different supercharger pulley and when i bought it i was told it also had a tune) my current car is still fast but its bone stock. what can i do to with the performance and not sacrifice mileage? the used car dealer i bought it form told me that changing the supercharger pulley will net 30 more ft/lbs of torque and improve mileage. he told me that 33 mpg is possible with that MOD. jeeze, i loved these cars but i thought any mod that takes it away from stock will reduce mileage. is that true? this car seems to get good mileage i was getting in the 24-25 MPG, which i know there are yuppies that could complain about that but im thrilled. all of the performance and 24 MPG it doesnt get any better. i used to drive a 89 camaro that i swapped a 350 into and it was fast but it drank like a fish, even when you werent being hard on it.

Seems totally legit, then just buy yourself a new motor..........










For cereal, if you did that I'd laugh then smack you. You can get the mpgs just driving like a grandpa on the freeway, no way you could ever avg that in a full tank of normal driving. Read up on mods and you'll figure out what mods are good and what mods are bad.

[ad356]

so changing supercharger pulleys can destroy the engine?

[ericspecullaas]

Yep if you smaller than 3.8 with no supporting mods you blow your motor. If you dont believe us then just look at the thousands of thread talking about a blown motor. Also if you want a guide to help you with modding look at the safety moding thread.

[Timing]

read

[REDCRAPGP]

http://www.grandprixforums.net/showthread.php?t=67580

Read ^ read ^ read ^ then study ^ then read again

[ericspecullaas]

And after that read it more then ask some cam questions, exhaust, intercooler, and header questions if you get lost

[Explicit_Spade]

i kind of wonder, are these cars going to be future collectors items, will it ever be like the grand national of the late 90's/early 2000's.

hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha

NO!

[ericspecullaas]

In general I do agree with you yes these qont be collector's car's but sometimes odd balls become collectable. Even on yearone they have gp parts into the 80's. But keep in mind that 20+ years from now. So for now no it wont be

[Explicit_Spade]

I still disagree. The only ones that have any collectable value are the prototypes, such as the Grand Prix G8, The G-Force, the One of One Petty Edition, the Whelen Stobe Pace Cars, and any with doccumentable proof of being Nascar pace cars.

The market is oversaturated, a majority (70% or more) of them aren't going to be worth more than scrap price within 10 years, let alone beyond that.

Comparing any mass quantity production car (especially an underpowered family sedan) to a Grand National is obsurd, their value is in the collectibilty based on the rare number produced and their high performance from the factory.

[ad356]

the GTP and GXP are hardly underpowered. the SE is weak and the GT isnt particularly fast either. the GTP was quite fast for its day and i still consider it to be a fast car that gets reasonable fuel economy. i love the supercharged cars.

[Explicit_Spade]

Quite fast for it's day compared to other family sedans, sure. Look at the bigger picture, there were 4 cylinders making the same power to weight ratio as a GTP.

We can talk about handling too, and how W-bodies are one of the worst handling cars of its era.

[ericspecullaas]

Then you never drove an 2004 gto then

[smoke14]

Handling isn't as much about the car as it is driver skill, or lack of.

[Explicit_Spade]

Clearly you don't know what body roll is...

[ntreftz]

the body roll is terrible!! The Wide wheel base setup as well as the longer wheel base compared to other cars of the "era" this was a handling machine. I had a 1998 xr7 cougar that handled like a tank compared to the GTP's. power to Weight ratio sux as well but who else offered a dare I say "reliable" V6 platform with 240 at the crank?

[TexasTanker19kilo20]

I can't wait to sell my POS for scrap.

[Explicit_Spade]

the body roll is terrible!! The Wide wheel base setup as well as the longer wheel base compared to other cars of the "era" this was a handling machine. I had a 1998 xr7 cougar that handled like a tank compared to the GTP's. power to Weight ratio sux as well but who else offered a dare I say "reliable" V6 platform with 240 at the crank?

One example of a better car would be a 2002 STI, which made 265 crank with only 4 cylinders, handled better and was all wheel drive. Think about the cobalt SS, srt4, etc that made as much power with less displacement.

V6 is an awkward medium, that's why there's nothing to compare the GTP to. I'd say the eaton powered v6 thunderbirds are the closest comparison and Ford was smart enough to drop those by 97. The difference of course being that the Thunderbird had an advantage by being rear wheel drive.

[TexasTanker19kilo20]

I would trade my GTP for a SC T-Bird.

[ad356]

One example of a better car would be a 2002 STI, which made 265 crank with only 4 cylinders, handled better and was all wheel drive. Think about the cobalt SS, srt4, etc that made as much power with less displacement.

V6 is an awkward medium, that's why there's nothing to compare the GTP to. I'd say the eaton powered v6 thunderbirds are the closest comparison and Ford was smart enough to drop those by 97. The difference of course being that the Thunderbird had an advantage by being rear wheel drive.

ok, well most of those 4 cylinder engines do not have the torque of a stock L67 much less a modded L67. comparing a boosted 4 cylinder to a boosted 3800 is like apples to oranges. the L67 has low end grunt and plenty of it, even in stock form. a cobalt SS supercharged makes 200 hp only makes 205 ft/lbs of torque, the L67 makes 270 ft/lbs stock. the turbo version is better at 260 ft/lbs but I'm guessing that's pretty close to limits of the engine. we all know that the L67 is capable of allot more power then stock. L67's are awesome, reliable, and powerful engines. heck I love any 3800 engine, and I for one would much rather listen to the sweet sound of a 3800 then listen to some god-awful raging weed-wacker 4 cylinder. I do not like the way 4 cylinders sound. just as much as a small block chevy produces a great exhaust note, I think the 3800 produces its own great exhaust note. heck, I would rather listen to the 3.1 in my cream puff 1991 cavalier RS 3.1 convertible I have, yes I have one of them as well. its in cherry condition and has a brand new convertible top. I always wanted a convertible and I always liked that generation of cavalier, the newer cavaliers I never cared for.