Thread: Sons First Car

Hello everyone.

I am about to trade my motorcycle for a 2002 GP GTP (possibly). I have a son about to turn 16 in Apr and he found this car that he likes. It has 132K on it and seems to be stock. Owned and opperated mostly by the wife of a cpl with 7 kids (together). I am not very familiar with Pontiacs as this will be our first. I have owned several makes but never a Pontiac.

I have owned in the past 1985 Dodge Daytona (turbo), 1978 Murcury Bobcat (glorified Pinto), 1989 Dodge Shadow ES (turbo), 1976 BMW 520, 1976 VW Scirocco, 1976 Pinto, 1980 Pinto, 1972 Ford F250 (Camper Special), 1985 S10, 1974 Chevy Cheyenne, 1972 VW Super Beetle, 1994 Ford Areostar, 1996 Dodge Stratus, 1999 Plymouth Voyager, and a 2003 Kia Sedona.

Currently own a 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser, 2003 Monte Carlo LS (3400), 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel and a 1961 Ford Falcon Resto Mod (project ongoing).

The 2003 Monte Carlo belongs to my oldest son and now son #2 is turning 16 and Im trying to trade my 2005 Suzuki Boulevard C50 for the Grand Prix. The wife of the couple has a new car and wants the hubby to get a bike so they can go riding. Since she wants a cruiser (apparently the hubby has a need for speed) and she no longer has a need for the Grand Prix this seems to be a match made in heaven. My son has a picky sense about him as he doesn't like most of the early 2000 type cars as he says they have a wedge shaped nose and he doesn't like them that way. He hates the brothers Monte Carlo for this very reason. He prefers the more rounded nose like that on the Chrysler Sebring, 300 M, and so on but says the front end on the Grand Prix is acceptible. Son #2 isn't like my oldest as he is very careful and doesn't like to push anything on the edge for a lack of confidence and hes kinda OCD about making mistakes. Im not very concerned about the added power of the supercharger as I seriously doubt if he will ever seriously punch it to see what it will do. If it were my oldest it would be a very different story.

I joined on here to see if I could pick up on any major concerns about the car, especially drivetrain. I had one guy who claimed to be a mechanic to say something about the cam shafts in the 3800 being hollow. When I mentioned it was suppercharged he said oh well thats a different animal. I have a cousin who has had several of the Grand AMs and I remember they had really cheap interriors to them that seemed fall apart or break often. The GTP seems to have a nicer interrior to it and the seats arent in bad shape at all. The guy claims that everything works on the car and has 132K miles on it. Its red in color and has a sunroof. Other than that I dont know much about it. I have read the buyers guide post on here and am glad I did as the author pointed out several things that I probably wouldnt normally look for, especially the antisway bar.

We are to go this weekend to look at the car and possibly do the swap. If I do then I may become a pretty active member as I like to learn as much about a car as I can. Im not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but I do enjoy building my resto mod Falcon. The more modern cars are to constrictive for me to work on. I prefer the 60's. The only concern I have at the moment about this car is can my son sit behind the wheel and be able to see out the windshield. He is 6'6 1/2 in tall and the front may have too much of a slope for him to be able to see out of? May have to lay the leat way back like my oldest has to do in the Monte Carlo (he is 6'7 305 (plays tackle on offense and will be playing for South Alabama next year in college).

Thank you all for this forum. I hope to make friends and pick you guys for information as needed.

I am 6'0" and my wife is 6'0". My mother and grandfather were both 4'9". Most of my family is 5'7" and below. My father was 6'0" and I had one uncle on my moms side that was 6'0". However my wife (100% German) side of the family is tall. Her brother is 6'4" and he has 2 sons that are 6'5" and 6'6". I also have a 13 yr old son who is 6'0" and 200 and my 8 yr old daughter is 5'1". We are often called the house of giants lol.

Originally Posted by MoarkatsINmuhtrailer

Lol the "mechanic" is an idiot first of all... Hollow camshaft.. What a joke. All 3800 have the same cam and it is not hollow.

He will be able to see out the window.

But I do have to ask, how tall are you?

What is the LIM? I saw that several times in post as I was reading but not familiar with the accronym.
My bike retails for around $3800. He is asking $4700 for the car but is willing to trade down he says if the bike is everything I am advertising it to be.

Originally Posted by Matt Palm

this bike you are trading how much would you say its worth. also check the lim gasket. the trans are also known to go bad. as for being a gtp it may seem quick to your kid at first being his first car but will quickly learn its nothing special by todays standards

I seriously doubt if he will ever have the desire to MOD the car. He is very conservative and has never shown any desire to really like speed otr hanging anything out on the edge. We went to Daytona several years ago and went to a go-cart track. He was about 9 or 10 at the time. My oldest was about 12 or 13 and went all out trying to run me off the course and trying to win but the middle son was very content to just ease around the track enjoying a Sunday drive. He is very responsible and cautious. However if he did ever have the desire he would have to wait till hes out of college and has a job as I wont be willing to fund any mods.

Originally Posted by TLSheff

Hi and

Things that generally go wrong with the car can be found in this thread. Have a good look over and it should help keep the car on the up and up. http://www.grandprixforums.net/97-03...ems-60802.html

As with any kid and a sports car (sedan or not, its supercharged and torquey, its a sports car) he will want to mod it. A good google search can lead to all sorts of options for making them fast. Keep an eye on this if you let him start playing with the car, it can go downhill quickly. If you find him wanting to mod it and you feel the inclination to let him, sit down together, go over these 2 threads. You both will learn alot.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/ultim...0-a-49055.html

http://www.grandprixforums.net/safel...0-a-67580.html


Either way, its a great car, roomy, safe, but still sporty. Even being tall, I have a couple friends well over 6ft and with the drivers seat all the way down and pulled back its easy to see around you and still have room to move.

You guys seemed to have missed the

on #2 isn't like my oldest as he is very careful and doesn't like to push anything on the edge for a lack of confidence and hes kinda OCD about making mistakes. Im not very concerned about the added power of the supercharger as I seriously doubt if he will ever seriously punch it to see what it will do. If it were my oldest it would be a very different story.

But that may change in time.

Regardless, TLSheff has the link you'll want to read over.

Thanks Matt. Thats what I thought it meant but wanted to be sure. I did an Edmunds TMV appraisal for the car and it ranged between $3500 - $4500 for our area. I have corresponded with him several times by email and made sure that he understood that this would be an even swap. The bike is in very good condition but it does have a few minor cosmetic issues. Some of the chrome has peeled off and there are a few scratches here and there that could be considered something to lower the value. It has no effect on the performance but some see cosmetics as a major issue. I have informed him of everything and he seems to be fine with a straight up trade. Thanks for the input. Like I said Im new to Pontiacs and not familiar with the resale value that much except for what I find online.

Originally Posted by Matt Palm

lower intake manifold gasket. and 4700 for that car seems a little high id say 3500 would be my tops for it personally

The only mod I would really intertain is something to make the MPG better. I understand these are normally 25-27 MPG HWY cars and around 18-20 in the city. As long as he gets that Im ok but if there is something that can be done inexpensively to get 3-5 MPG better I would strongly consider it. Im sure it is plenty fast enough as is. Not looking for speed just good perfomance, MPG, and stamina. I hope this is the only car he has to have till he gets out of college and he still has 2 years of high school left.

Make sure he puts premium in it too. The wrong fuel can cause problems.

Really? hhhmmmm Hes not going to like having to shell out more per gal but if it saves on repairs then so be it. What exactly does it do to the engine? Just curious. I know higher compression engines rewuire higher octane but wonder why the super charger changes what fuel you must use.

Originally Posted by TLSheff

^^^ This. 87 has been known to cause assortments of problems from mis-fires to busted pistons.

Use 91 or higher ONLY!

It may cost a couple bucks more per fill-up but it will save down the road.

Originally Posted by falcongt

Really? hhhmmmm Hes not going to like having to shell out more per gal but if it saves on repairs then so be it. What exactly does it do to the engine? Just curious. I know higher compression engines rewuire higher octane but wonder why the super charger changes what fuel you must use.

If you calculate the equivalent compression ratio it'd be even higher than the same engine designed for 91 octane with no boost.

In this case, the top piston rings are set pretty tight, and will expand chipping the piston. From there, it could damage the valves or the piston further.

Keep in mind a grand prix that old might require all of the usual 10 year old car components. Like any suspension bits or brakes.

Coolant will be well past its expiration date and will be chewing on those plastic LIM gaskets. Keep an eye on the coolant levels, if it gets lower and you can't see any leaks, it's probably the LIM gaskets. Down there it'll cost you ~$200 in parts and a weekend of time if you're newer to repairs like this. Good bonding opportunity?

Really? Which ones of my previous autos are you referring to? The only car I have ever had that was a complete lemon was the Murcury Bobcat. Transmission went out on day 3, fuel pump bit the dust while it was down with the tranny problem, then over heated and blew a head gasket. Other than that I never had a major problem with any of the rest. The Ford Areostar didnt have rear air and my kids burned up that first and only summer, the Kia Sedona seats fell apart but other than that everything I have had never left me stranded on the road. If you are referring to the Ford Pinto's they were actually one of the most reliable cars I ever owned, especially the 1980 it was bought new and the ONLY reason I sold it was because I wrecked it and totalled it out. The engine and transmission were very reliable and I drove the crap out of that car.

Originally Posted by Nickell

Looking at the list of prior and current cars, you guys will LOVE the grand prix, some of those cars you listed off are not the most reliable

Thanks Matt. I remember reading something on here about some kind of special coolant used by GM in this time period. Should I ask the owner if they mixed regular coolant? I plan to do an oil change right off the bat and possibly a transmission service, should I also flush the cooling system and if I should what type of coolant should I use?

Originally Posted by matt5112

If you calculate the equivalent compression ratio it'd be even higher than the same engine designed for 91 octane with no boost.

In this case, the top piston rings are set pretty tight, and will expand chipping the piston. From there, it could damage the valves or the piston further.

Keep in mind a grand prix that old might require all of the usual 10 year old car components. Like any suspension bits or brakes.

Coolant will be well past its expiration date and will be chewing on those plastic LIM gaskets. Keep an eye on the coolant levels, if it gets lower and you can't see any leaks, it's probably the LIM gaskets. Down there it'll cost you ~$200 in parts and a weekend of time if you're newer to repairs like this. Good bonding opportunity?

Originally Posted by falcongt

Thanks Matt. I remember reading something on here about some kind of special coolant used by GM in this time period. Should I ask the owner if they mixed regular coolant? I plan to do an oil change right off the bat and possibly a transmission service, should I also flush the cooling system and if I should what type of coolant should I use?

I wouldn't ask so much as take a peak inside the rad and see what colour it is. If its brown, its mixed or rust prohibitors are long gone and its rust floating around. If its green, it might have been recently flushed. If its orange, its the factory dexcool most likely. Most people like to ignore any and all maintenance, sometimes even oil changes. Take off the oil filler cap and look inside with a flashlight and see if there's a layer of carbon buildup on the components. If so, the oil changes weren't very regular. It can be brown, or black. As to what each one means, I couldn't tell you.

Some like Dexcool (nothing wrong if its maintained properly), some prefer the old school stuff, but it only lasts two years. My vote goes for Zerex G-05. Around the same price as Dexcool but a much better product. Ford and Chrysler both abandoned the Dexcool like formula, and went to this because they had issues with Dex. G-05 is also a 5 year coolant so it'll be good for remainder of the vehicles life.

If this was a dealer, it'd be worth your time having it inspected at a shop you trust for any issues, Might be able to get some cash out of the deal. But the same goes for your bike.

On the transmission, inspect the fluid first. If its very burnt smelling it might not be wise to touch it at all. If it's okay, then a pan drop would be nice.

God forbid I mention this, but the only other fluids left are the powersteering and the brake fluid. Both are considered to have a lifespan as well.

As a final note, I wouldn't touch the coolant until you were 100% positive you don't need a new LIM gasket. But chances are, if its plastic, you do.

If you look where the lower intake manifold touches the head, there will be a piece of either black plastic or silver metal (some are steel, some are aluminum). If its black, I'd suggest a new metal LIM gasket with GM coolant elbows and felpro valve cover gaskets w/ grommets. Get it all over with so you won't have to touch it again.