Bill is there the "No tools" method?
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05-29-2013
Bill is there the "No tools" method?
Originally Posted by Bio248
Originally Posted by Kilroy
05-30-2013
Thanks Bill! I guess I can hand tighten for 13 ft-lbs and yank on my ratchet for the 111 ft-lbs.
Sounds like the tricky part is getting the puller and the right bolts.
05-30-2013
Not really.. m6 x 1.00 x 75mm or 1/4" super fine pitch and you are all set.
Eric..usually if you are trying for no tools, you paying
06-06-2013
I changed the sensor out car ran fine for
Few trips. Now the car stumbles and rpm fluctuate.
Could this be due to the need for a case learn?
If I pull the neg terminal on the battery the car runs fine for about 20min.
Both the crank postion sensor and harmonic balancer were replaced.
Just checking cause the stealership wants $100 to do the case learn
Thanks for any help
06-07-2013
Tough to say.. typically if you "need" a crank learn badly the engine runs poorly from the start. Please post up a seperate thread in the engine area and let's toss some diagnosing at this.
06-07-2013
I had not heard of a case learn before. I did some searches and other places I'm reading that you need to do a case learn if you are replacing the CPS. Is that correct? From what I read on this how-to and Bill's most recent post, it sounds like not really. Can anyone clear this up and also explain more in-depth what a case learn is? (a link to a good explanation is fine too)
Current symptoms: Car has been having issue where it may or may not hesitate while driving down the road. If it does hesitate, car runs uneven and jerks slightly, then recovers within a few seconds, then a few moments later the tach drops to 0, then about 10-30 seconds later the traction control off light comes on. Car continues to drive fine and when I shut it off and turn it on again, the tach works and the traction light is off indicating everything is fine. It's been doing this for a couple years, but it seems to be happening more often, and looking online it seems this is classic indications to replace the CPS, so I was planning on doing that tomorrow.
Car: 2000 Pontiac GT
06-07-2013
From a dealership tech with many years of experience, I found out that the crank/aka case learn is an optimization of the pcm knowing the crank position. Based on cam and the crank 3x and 18x signals it should know pretty well. However I have also had a couple of cases where the car fired, ran horrible like a sensor was wacked or something. Upon finding nothing else I case learned and the car ran great from then on. Typically though, you'll fire them up and they run fantastic. I do quite a few crank sensors and have the tool to learn them. Typically though..I don't bother.
06-08-2013
After the last battery reset the car has not had a problem.
Kind of weird hope it was just a fluke
Thanks for the info
06-18-2013
I don't know how the vice-grips thing is going to work for that bolt - I tried shoving a screwdriver into one of the three holes in the HB as well as a vicegrips and then a breaker bar to break things free and it wasn't going to happen. I saw a youtube video of someone who had made a special tool for holding the HB in place while he pried, but I would rather not make a custom tool for a job I may only do once or twice. Not sure how the no-tools method worked out for others - maybe if I had a 2nd guy on the vicegrips I could make it work...
So I decided to buy an air compressor and an IR last night - got home too late to try them out, but that's the new plan.
06-19-2013
If that does not work go with ghetto way.
Wedge breaker bar on the frame and have it on the nut. (if its tight on the frame it wont feel like the starter moved)
Disconnect icm
Turn key to on and hit start a couple times bolt will come free.
Youtube has a video of how to do it. Worked for me twice.
You also need bolts for pulley puller go to lowes and get high strength washers
06-19-2013
Very simply, when you put the vice grips on the FLEX PLATE as suggested, it holds the motor from moving. You said harmonic balancer a couple of times and ...well there's nothing to grab onto on the balancer.
The first thing you see is removing a splash shield to see the balancer. Then a line or two down is remove a plastic inspection cover to see the flex. Flex is connected to the torque converter of the transmission.
06-20-2013
Thanks Bill, I was confused about that at first, then I read about putting the vice grips on the flex plate, but I decided to buy an air compressor and an impact wrench.
The IR and compressor I bought at first were too light-duty though - a small compressor and a 400 ft-lb rated IR didn't do it. I bought one rated for 800 ft-lbs and hooked it up to a larger compressor and it it came off no problem. It was getting late, so I decided to finish this job on the weekend. I've got the bolts and a couple washers, but now after seeing the pictures/videos of other people taking the HB off, I think I better get some stronger washers - the bolts that matched the specs you provided seem a lot weaker than the bolts that are in the puller kit and the heads are a lot smaller.
06-20-2013
I think I picked up grade 8 bolts off mcmaster. But did made do for quite some time with Napa bolt drawer bolts.. no idea what grade they were. Bolts that small are not commonly strong. For a single pull..you'd likely be fine with wimpy bolts.
FWIW and this is funny.. I bought a gun in a pinch and the only place open was Walmart, they had a Stanley gun for $82.31 out the door after tax. I know what you are thinking..because I thought it when I bought it. What I now know about the gun is IR's most popular gun the 231 had the patent run out for a little while and Stanley snatched the opportunity to make this gun. It looks like an IR 231, it's the same gun...with a Stanley name. 550ft lbs in reverse. Had it for close to 7 years now... love the thing.
stanley impact wrench SHOCKER!!!!!! - The Garage Journal Board
06-21-2013
Bill, thank you so much for this write-up! I got the job done yesterday and drove the car around and it seemed fine. Since I noticed that I only have the symptoms of the tach dropping to 0 and the light coming on for the traction control being shut off, I wasn't 100% sure this solved the issue, but I was able to drive to work without the problem coming up and the past few weeks it seems like it has been coming on every time I drive to work, so I think the problem seems solved!
3 suggestions that I could make to improve this excellent write-up to make it easier for people to follow would be:
1) When you said "wheel" I wasn't sure if you were referring to the tire or where the tire bolts to. I've replaced a couple CV joints repairs where you remove the wheel nut, so I was confused until I took the tire and splash shield and looked and saw the size of the bolt you meant was the lugnut. Maybe this because I've not done as much work on cars as it sounds like you have, just thought I'd mention it as a possible point of confusion.
2) I was a little concerned that the HB wasn't going on properly because reading the directions it seemed like perhaps I wasn't getting it on correctly, though it was lined up with the notch and key. I figured it out that I just needed to let the crank bolt pull it in, but it would have been great if that was outlined. Again, I'm guessing you've done this before so it made sense to you and didn't seem worth writing in.
3) Finally, I know a lot of guys mentioned this here and in a couple other forums, but putting a 3/8 drive extension into where the crank bolt goes worked perfectly with the puller kit I borrowed from Auto Zone - between that and the 3 bolts (and washers) pulling the HB was very easy and not a problem at all.
I would have to say that between finally having my own garage with my own tools and this great write-up this was one of the most pain-free repairs I've done on this car. Thanks!
06-21-2013
Wraith,
I welcome suggestions/personal insight to things as you are correct...often I have done this too many times or have a term I picked up and ran with that others may not know.
1. Wheel, the wheel is what the tire is mounted on and is held the wheel hub via lug nuts. If someone has other terminology then I'd prefer they learned a little and didn't call the wheel/rim the tire and the tire the rim. Kinda like calling a goldfish an orangefish. It's very close and the same basic thing..but the rest of the world had goldfish.
2. Thanks, I've added a little clarification.
3. Funny you say this..I did this for a few years and have a battered 3/8 extension of 3" to prove it. Short version is the balancer pulling kit has parts in it to do the same. If not.. you got a really crappy puller. I have one from Advance and the pieces are in there to facilitate dealing with that issue. Meanwhile if anyone needs to borrow my battered extension...holler.
06-24-2013
I totally understand - Now that I've done this job once and have an IR, it seems like a piece of cake. Eventually enough stuff will break on my cars that I'll get to do a job that I've already done once or twice before so I will have work to do that isn't brand-new to me!
1) Point taken and I agree with that, thanks!
2) That clarification looks great!
3) The puller I got was this one - OEM/Harmonic balancer puller kit (27019) | Harmonic Balancer Puller | AutoZone.com
That puller is free to rent from AutoZone - (so maybe it is a crappy puller) and I read that a few guys had the threads from the bolt that comes with the kit (pressure screw) rub against the threads where you take the crank bolt out of. I made sure that all 3 of the anchor bolts that I bought were evenly adjusted, but I figured the 3/8 extension would be less likely to mess up threads than the bolt in the kit.
By the way, I was just looking and I found this set that says it has GM 3300 and 3800 engine bolts in the kit, it looks like the Autozone one but with the bolts, in case anyone finds this useful:
OEM 27019 Harmonic Balancer - Tools - Tool Sets - Home Owner Tool Sets
10-26-2013
the purpose of the crankshaft variation relearn procedure is for the pcm to compensate for differences in the signal output from one crank sensor to another. If this is not done you may get false misfire dtc's at high rpm's.
11-11-2013
is there any way of testing the sensor? i don't want to go through that and not know that its for sure whats wrong
11-12-2013
For what it's worth - I found it to be a very easy process once I got a good air compressor and a good impact wrench. I didn't do a case learn and I've been driving it since for months now without any issues. The tach has been working perfect, the traction control light has stayed off indicating traction control is working and the engine hasn't missed at all.
The check engine light did come on, but the codes indicated an O2 sensor going bad, so I replaced that and the sensor has stayed off since, so it wasn't any problem with the CPS.
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