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11-15-2008
Anyway? I'm kinda thinking about doing this for my car, mainly for the octane benefit. I'm curious if this will work for me, I don't see why not. I don't think the core will cause any issues, by the time the alky reaches the core its should be a very fine mist or evern vaporized. Any input?
11-15-2008
i will be running this set up very soon, if not after the holidays. im going to be installing a VS cam, so the meth will probalby be my last mod. Tune Time does plenty of builds on cars, maggies with intercoolers, and they install a meth kit on everyone. the power you can make with it is nuts.
11-16-2008
Just get an xp.Originally Posted by QwikGT
wish i could comment on the meth but im not a meth head like brian
11-16-2008
wish i could comment on the meth but im not a meth head like brian
Damn meth heads! LOL
Seriously though, Brian what was your before and after timing + boost on the street? Just curious man, I got alot of questions about it.
11-17-2008
Before? I probably ran about 18* timing max...on a 3.2 in the summer....spring and fall I could barely get the 3.0 to be manageable, but just simply running too much fuel to kill the KR....I bet it was in the 10.6 range.Damn meth heads! LOL
Seriously though, Brian what was your before and after timing + boost on the street? Just curious man, I got a lot of questions about it.
NOW.....with the Meth.
Washer fluid is too diluted to actually get any type of gain. You're best just not even considering running it for any type of performance standpoint, and if you do use it, you'd have to use a 3 gph nozzle at the largest. It just simply sprays too much water into the intake. You know how crummy the performance gets on a hot humid day. I know I may confuse some people when I try to describe what I use for the solution. Believe me I've got a lot of time in messing with it....it's not completely useless, it'll keep things cool after the half way point on the track, but that's about it. I just want people to know what I've found that works and what doesn't......When I started running the 100%, I couldn't keep it from leaning out with the M5 nozzle, so I leaped to an M10 and that was perfect. I keep the AFR right around 11.8-12.1 AFR. I maxed the timing at 25....never seen any more gains running higher.
Today at the track, I had 15psi on the gauge. I was actually pretty shocked at seeing it was that high, but I think she's done for the year on the track. So next year might bring some new fun.
11-17-2008
Before? I probably ran about 18* timing max...on a 3.2 in the summer....spring and fall I could barely get the 3.0 to be manageable, but just simply running too much fuel to kill the KR....I bet it was in the 10.6 range.
NOW.....with the Meth.
Washer fluid is too diluted to actually get any type of gain. You're best just not even considering running it for any type of performance standpoint, and if you do use it, you'd have to use a 3 gph nozzle at the largest. It just simply sprays too much water into the intake. You know how crummy the performance gets on a hot humid day. I know I may confuse some people when I try to describe what I use for the solution. Believe me I've got a lot of time in messing with it....it's not completely useless, it'll keep things cool after the half way point on the track, but that's about it. I just want people to know what I've found that works and what doesn't......When I started running the 100%, I couldn't keep it from leaning out with the M5 nozzle, so I leaped to an M10 and that was perfect. I keep the AFR right around 11.8-12.1 AFR. I maxed the timing at 25....never seen any more gains running higher.
Today at the track, I had 15psi on the gauge. I was actually pretty shocked at seeing it was that high, but I think she's done for the year on the track. So next year might bring some new fun.
I guess i'm kinda confused. You do use it for an antidetonation tool right? And it kills KR good right? 15psi non-intercooled iss very impressive IMO. I assume this is with 0 KR on pump gas correct?
11-16-2008
TTT???
11-16-2008
The only input I can give, is to run the highest concentration of Methanol as you can. Washer fluid isn't gonna cut it. 70% and above or you're wasting your time.
11-16-2008
Yeah, I agree there. I know a lot of GN guys run straight meth with great success. You still run 100% don't ya? How is it? hows it effect tuning? Whats your timing and WB AFRs?
11-16-2008
Enough to blow a stock motor sky high
11-18-2008
0 kr....period. I basically have substituted it as a fuel/additive. The Methanol helps cool the air charge along with adding octane to the gas.
I'm glad I went this route...granted I've read about lots of people who have had these kits, but not much success. I guess having access to a lot of pure methanol has something to do with it.
11-18-2008
I agree. Another place I think people screw up, they dial in too much alky to be spray in which kills power. Also, those people seem to not have the proper equipment to tune it with, such as some sort of scanner/tuner and a wideband gauge. I think this makes a HUGE difference.
If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your meth at? I want some of the "good" stuff, which back alley do i need to go to?
11-18-2008
I am not a big fan of running anything more than 50/50 meth to water. It takes a lot less water to cool the air charge than it does with methanol. Water has almost twice the amout of Kj than methanol is. When you start geting into replacing fuel for meth yes you can make power but it is at the risk if the alky kit has problem.
Alcohol/water injection is used very widely on other applications. I bet 8/10 modded turbo buicks run it. 5/10 sti/evo's run it. 4/10 srt4. But in the grand prix word its not very popular. Maybe 1/100 at best. Part of this is due to certain people that everyone looks too for advice also sells inter coolers. So every alcohol injection kit that is sold is is 1 less inter cooler he will sell. So you can guess what he tells people. And they tell the next guy etc tells. If it was crap it would not be so heavily sold to other markets.
11-19-2008
Tell me, what is KJ? How is ones tune affected by Alky on a 50/50 mix? What will need to be adjusted? Whats WB numbers should one shoot for?
In the GP world alky is used as the main cooling charge. Other than one other person, no one I know uses Alky and a Full Intercooler together. I don't see how it wouldn't work, I actully see it having some advantages. Any cons I should know about when considering this? I'm kinda going in uncharted territory here. With it all dialed in, how my est HP can be obtained? Any guesses?
Thanks!
11-19-2008
TTT?
11-22-2008
TTT
11-22-2008
Water/alcohol injection relies on the fact that it takes much more energy to raise the temperature of water than it does to lower the temperature of air. The specific heat of a substance is a measure of the amount of energy (kJ) required to increase the temperature of a certain amount of it (kg) by a certain temperature (° C). The specific heat of water is 4.184 kJ/kg ° C. This means that it takes 4.184 kJ of energy to raise one kg of water 1° C in teperature. The specific heat of water is more than four times that of air, which ranges from 1.00 kJ/kg ° C to 1.05 kJ/kg ° C, for the temperatures we're concerned with.
Nozzle sizzing is the key to not affect the tune. The more you inject the more thats going to end up in the cylinders. If you go with a DO3 nozzle or a DO5 nozzle your not going to end up with much in the cylinders. With the DO5 nozzle at most you should see a .5 higher afr. So at most you should need to pull out a small amount of fuel.
Cons of alcohol injection is having another tank to fill up with evey tank of gas. When done properly you will not have any issues. That's what makes alcohol-water injection such a huge plus for forced induction cars.
I am not big into giving hp gain numbers. Because most of whats out there is b.s. people making up numbers. De-tuning a car then putting parts on and then tuning them. So its very misleading. Realistic gains are approx 20hp for a 3800. Its enough that most all customers can feel the difference. Diesels usually make around 50-60hp with this mod. So it does depend on what you drive.
11-24-2008
Good info, I think I may give this a shot finally. I've been looking to do something else and i'm kinda running out of things to do. I'm really not interested in doing a cam right now. I figure i'll wait until I have to dig into the motor, then go all out (forged pistons, heads, cam, etc).
Really my only options are Alky or Nitrous and i'm still not 100% sold on Nitrous just yet although the gains are there without a doubt.
Thanks!
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