Thread: Vibration/Shemmy Problem *solved

K, in order of events, this is what happened and what I have done with my 2003 GTP, 99k miles.

1. Flex plate broke, at the same time during the repair, the axles fvcked up (front end shook pretty bad afterwards) and I was informed that a needle bearing inside of the driver side of the tranny was messed up causing the axle to shake. So, mechanic managed to repair it without taking it apart, according to him it needed to be tore down but that he worked on it and got it finished.
So, in a nutshell, he fixed the needle bearing problem with a used piece in the tranny and installed new axles on both sides along with a new solid engine mount.

Reman. or not, I'm not sure.

Mechanic also had the tires balanced right before he done the axles because of the shaking, he wanted to rule that out before doing axles.

AT THIS POINT IT DRIVES PERFECTLY

2. I got a front end alignment (at a shop that does it the old school way, NOT computerized, and I didn't like the guy who did it) to straighten up the steering wheel from when the axles were replaced. They informed me that I had a bad tie rod end.

3. A day or so later, I was on the interstate when I noticed that it FEELS like a tire is out of balance... THIS IS WHERE IT'S MESSED UP and I'm leaning towards a bad alignment causing my problems!

4. I replaced with two new MOOG tie rod ends, hoping that would cure the shake. [I know it sounds crazy to replace them after an alignment, BUT I thought they were b.s.ing me about the tie rod end, until I felt the shaking after the alignment]

5. I rotated the tires JUST to see if it would change, leading me to think it was actually an out of balance tire, maybe somehow a balance fell off? NOPE, not really any change.

6. At high speeds, it has had this weird grinding feel. So, as to everyone's advice, I did BOTH front Timken wheel bearings. (torqued the axle nut to 118 ft. lb., per GM tech service manual)

Now, I still haz the shaky wobbly feeling LIKE a tire is out of balance. It does it basically all of the time, but it is rather subtle, it's not HORRIBLE shaking. It doesn't change with engine load either.
Furthermore, on brand new road, I feel this grinding feel when cruising at about 45 or so.


So I am stuck, I need opinions, troubleshoots, and anything you have to offer.

I am contemplating the following to fix this/my ideas:

1. Since the alignment IS still off AND I fear that the original alignment is a probable cause to ALL of this mess in the first place, I am tempted to have the front end computerized aligned tomorrow and pray that that will cure the problem.

2. I am tempted to have the tires re-balanced at this shop tomorrow while it gets aligned.

3. I am tempted to take it back to my mechanic and tell him that I have replaced tie rod ends and wheel bearings and it feels like the axles are bad again, so please check it out.

4. Maybe it's a warped rotor, though I doubt it since it brakes fine even at high speeds.

5. Maybe it has something to do with the fact I haz new solid engine mount but the same old tranny mount? But it was fine before the alignment so go figure?

Other than that I'm at the end of my rope, IDK what to do, what do y'all think of those 3 steps, or possibly another solution??

Thanks!

Not sure son. Your sure the tires are in good condition (ie: not seperating belts)?

i'm nearly positive. the tires are very beefy, newish, idk how new though because i did not buy them or put them on.

everything was okay before the alignment so idk. i'm tired of fvckin with it. its going to a shop tomorrowww for alignment and check

Having been into a transmission enough to know better.. please get a better description of the part name/location on that needle bearing. The only ones I'm aware of that could get loose and be fixed would be the differential.

On the rest. Jack the front end. Wiggle the tires by putting your hands at 3 and 9 o'clock. Any play? Tie rod ends could mean inner tie rod end or outter. Just to ensure you replaced the right ones.

An alignment is needed.

Brakes.. do you have any pulsation from the brake pedal when you try to stop say from highway speeds? If no..brakes are fine.

well i got a camber kit installed (camber was way off by 9 degrees), got a 4 wheel alignment, and got them balanced. i still haz teh problems.

so either it's going back to the tire shop OR it can go back to the mechanic who did the axles. which is it?

and i replaced the tranny mount, which means both engine and tranny mount are now solid.

it helped, now my vibration is at highway speeds, it doesn't feel torque sensitive and it brakes fine on highway. im clueless, it's very subtle.

and just to give a description of the vibration. i drove it a lot today on the interstate and i feel the vibration the MOST at about 65-75mph. a little slower and it fades. a little faster and it kinda fades. i THINK it is rear wheel bearings because i can hear a quick "whop whop whop" very quietly when i have the radio off. also, there MIGHT be some grindy feeling to it that i picked up here and there. and it accelerates with speed so it's leading me straight to the wheel bearings in the back.

maybe im wrong, but after all ive replaced, checked, and serviced. there isn't much other option. i'm between hubs and rotors at this point.

don't you need spacers if you use solid mounts? i thought i read that here somewhere.

Originally Posted by scottydoggs

don't you need spacers if you use solid mounts? i thought i read that here somewhere.

well, solid mount users here such as bluenick and cleangtp, they don't use them i don't think. i know nick doesn't said i wouldn't need them.

so idk. it's possible i guess

Originally Posted by brandonl2000

i feel the vibration the MOST at about 65-75mph. a little slower and it fades. a little faster and it kinda fades.

Man this is exactly what mine was doing with my other tires. Vibration between 60-70 only. I knew they threw a weight but they still did it after I rebalanced them. I know you put a different set of wheels on it and it did the same thing, so thats prolly not it. But it is just really weird. My tires that were doing it, only had 10k miles on them, I replaced them and it was gonzo.

hmm. well i think im just gonna throw new wheel bearings at the rear end. i mean, at least it'll fix the whop whop noise.

i refuse to buy tires as good and new as mine are.

EDIT: wheel bearing theory back into play...

My managers seem to think it's a bent rim and they want me to go to a shop. SO to avoid this cost intially, I decided to get under and look for myself. The rims look fine to me.

Shortly after checking a few things, I ran across 2 things that raised an eyebrow.

1). I spun the tires, without ever applying the brake at this point, and ALL of the tires you can see the surface jump up and down ever so slightly. Does this pose a problem or is this normal? The tires are a year old give or take some months.

Here is a vid (apologies for the iPhone camera, but you can clearly see the surface of the tire as it moves up and down while its spinning): 2003 Blue GTP :: IMG_0545.mp4 video by BrandonL2000 - Photobucket

2). I applied the emergency brake, not part of my test. But to my surprise I spun the back wheels yet again after releasing the brake, and heard this noise coming from the brakes. My theory is warped rear rotors. You can hear the surface of the pads coming in contact with the rotor at a certain point in the rotation, suggesting to me that it's warped. The front wheels make a smooth sound (unlike the rear) as the pads make slight contact with the whole rotor as it spins in rotation. Could this be warped rear rotors?

So here is a vid of the sound of the pads touching the rotor, theory: warped rears: 2003 Blue GTP :: IMG_0546.mp4 video by BrandonL2000 - Photobucket


Given all this, I'm thinking either tire issue (unlikely given new-ish tires AND the fact that ALL tires do this same thing)

OR I'm thinking it's just the rear rotors warped, since I do not feel much of anything when braking at high speed, and rear brakes don't do much anyway...

OR I'm thinking a bent rim given the movement in the tires But what's the chances ALL the tires or ALL the rims have a problem?

But even if you don't know, maybe you could share if your tires do this same up and down motion ever so slightly while spinning. If it's normal I can throw out that idea.

1 st vid the tire does seem to have wobble to it,

2 nd vid, that sounds like the e brake shoes not backed off all the way, inside the disk is a set of brake shoes, and the inside of the disk has a drum built into it. that how the e brake works.

Originally Posted by scottydoggs

1 st vid the tire does seem to have wobble to it,

2 nd vid, that sounds like the e brake shoes not backed off all the way, inside the disk is a set of brake shoes, and the inside of the disk has a drum built into it. that how the e brake works.

so what are you suggesting lol..

all the tires have that same wobble which confuses me.

Originally Posted by brandonl2000

so what are you suggesting lol..

all the tires have that same wobble which confuses me.

well being that you had the ebrake on then it makes this noise tells me maybe it always hangs up after you use it, and you never knew it, then it free's its self up down the road, so you could remove the rotor and clean and inspect the ebrake parts and re adjust the shoes too. if you ever did rear drum brakes its the same thing really, just a lot smaller set up.

Not sure if you guys noticed but in the second vid when it's "catching", the tire is also moving upward slightly. It seems to me thats the only time it catches. However it does sound like the rotor is catching. Wether the rotor catching, and the tire moving upward have a correlation, I don't kow.

I may go out and jack up my car to see if my tires have the same wobble.

Ok I went and took a video. My tire did the same thing that yours did Brandon. I don't know if it's all of the tires since I only checked the one.

Mine too seemed to catch, i'm assuming on the rotor. However this is weird because I bet the pads and rotors don't even have 500 miles on them. They haven't even been on the car for a month. I don't brake hard either. Out on the 55 mph highways i let my car roll itself down to about 35 before i even touch the brakes(as long as no one is behind me). All the rest of my driving is at 40 mph or less usually.

I tried backing up a little bit so that I could see wether it was the tire itself that was wobbling or if it was the wheel AND tire together. But I couldn't really figure it out.

http://s544.photobucket.com/albums/hh339/4THGENCAMAROFAN/1997%20Pontiac%20Grand%20Prix%20GTP/Randoms/?action=view&current=103_0261.mp4

Originally Posted by 4THGENCAMAROFAN

Ok I went and took a video. My tire did the same thing that yours did Brandon. I don't know if it's all of the tires since I only checked the one.

Mine too seemed to catch, i'm assuming on the rotor. However this is weird because I bet the pads and rotors don't even have 500 miles on them. They haven't even been on the car for a month. I don't brake hard either. Out on the 55 mph highways i let my car roll itself down to about 35 before i even touch the brakes(as long as no one is behind me). All the rest of my driving is at 40 mph or less usually.

I tried backing up a little bit so that I could see wether it was the tire itself that was wobbling or if it was the wheel AND tire together. But I couldn't really figure it out.

Randoms :: 103_0261.mp4 video by 4THGENCAMAROFAN - Photobucket

your sounds like the e brake dragging too. mine made the same sound when i put new rear rotors on, i had to re adjust the e brake shoes.

theres a star wheel you can get to if you dont want to remove the whole rotor and caliper bracket, its inside the hub behind a rubber plug on the back side of the hub, bottom i think, you need a pick type tool to hold the locking bar off the star wheel and back it off till the wheel spins freely. they sell a brake tool that fits perfectly every time, but a large screw driver will work too.

Originally Posted by scottydoggs

well being that you had the ebrake on then it makes this noise tells me maybe it always hangs up after you use it, and you never knew it, then it free's its self up down the road, so you could remove the rotor and clean and inspect the ebrake parts and re adjust the shoes too. if you ever did rear drum brakes its the same thing really, just a lot smaller set up.

well, it's not just the e-brake. if you apply the brake or check it after it's warm, same thing with the rotors. so it doesn't make me suspicious of the e-brake at all. but i've never worked on drum brakes or anything so it would be dumb for me to even touch the e-brake.
do you have to do anything special with the e-brake system when removing the rotor and pads??

Originally Posted by 4THGENCAMAROFAN

Ok I went and took a video. My tire did the same thing that yours did Brandon. I don't know if it's all of the tires since I only checked the one.

Mine too seemed to catch, i'm assuming on the rotor. However this is weird because I bet the pads and rotors don't even have 500 miles on them. They haven't even been on the car for a month. I don't brake hard either. Out on the 55 mph highways i let my car roll itself down to about 35 before i even touch the brakes(as long as no one is behind me). All the rest of my driving is at 40 mph or less usually.

I tried backing up a little bit so that I could see wether it was the tire itself that was wobbling or if it was the wheel AND tire together. But I couldn't really figure it out.

Randoms :: 103_0261.mp4 video by 4THGENCAMAROFAN - Photobucket

thanks for the vid austin that was very helpful. if yours rides smooth as glass then my check today got me no where.

i'm still thinking rear right wheel bearing since i hear a noise from back there after driving today. it's almost like a humming i guess, but more of a tapping flopping whopping noise. whether or not it's associated with the shemmy idk.

so i guess that idea isn't dismissed after all.

Originally Posted by brandonl2000

i'm still thinking rear right wheel bearing since i hear a noise from back there after driving today. it's almost like a humming i guess, but more of a tapping flopping whopping noise. whether or not it's associated with the shemmy idk.

so i guess that idea isn't dismissed after all.

have you rotated that tire yet? whoop/ tapping noise could be a bad tire, like as in a flat spot. i know you said they were balanced and all, and most balance's wont let a bad tire get by them, but you may be hearing a flat spot in the tire. that would cause a slight bounce in the tire as it spins.