Thread: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67?

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  1. #1 Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    Hello grand prix forums!

    I have been searching for the answer to this question but have yet to find anything definitive. Hopefully some 3800 veterans on here can point me in the right direction.

    I'm working on a top swap build with the INTENSE Stage 1x performance package. That includes the S1X cam, LS7 lifters, 105# springs, and a JP single roller timing set.

    Well, several people have advised me NOT to use the JP single roller setup, and to use a stock timing set instead. The thing is, the L36 timing set and the L67 timing set are not quite the same. One of them has advanced cam timing 2 degrees relative to the other. But, I don't know which one!

    INTENSE recommends installing the S1X cam at 0 degrees timing advance ("striaght up"), as the camshaft has timing advance already built into the cam profile. So I need to figure out which STOCK timing set is keyed that way, in order to keep things consistent. I am looking on RockAuto and the CLOYES part number for the L36 timing set is C3214 and the part number for the L67 timing set is C3215. Which one is designed for 0 degrees advance?

    Thank you!
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  2. #2 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
     

  3. #3 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    They're not the same. If they were, CLOYES would have used the same timing set for both engines. They don't. Also, there are several threads discussing it, but nobody says definitively which one is at 0 degrees advance. Just that one is retarded / advanced relative to the other. Here are a couple:

    http://www.3800pro.com/forum/cams-he...iming-set.html

    http://www.gmforum.com/general-gm-ch...-265646/page2/


    EDIT: It seems that the difference between the 2 timing sets is the cam sprocket. The chain and the crank sprocket are the same.
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  4. #4 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    Perma-Banned! JK LOL Explicit_Spade's Avatar
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    Rock Auto lists Ultra-Power part number C3214 for both, but notes it as L26 engine design.

    With your mods, why not make things easier and get a rollmaster double and let your tune adjust the timing?
    Quote Originally Posted by W-Body Store
    Remember, GM engineers didn't take into account your need for speed.
    Daily Driver: 06 Grand Prix GT / 9.4:1 CR / IS3 Heads / Ported Gen V / ZZP Headers / HPT Pro / Pulleys: 4.25, 3.8, 3.5, 3.4, 3.2, 3.0, 2.9, 2.7
    Projects: 86 Monte Carlo SS / 98 Sonoma / 74 Honda CB750
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  5. #5 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    GrandPrix Junkie SgtMarshal's Avatar
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    based on the suggestion of overkill, I would get a stock timing chain set. I think the easiest way to verify you are getting the right timing chain would be to call the dealership and find out what part number they have for the stock chain set.
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  6. #6 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Explicit_Spade View Post
    With your mods, why not make things easier and get a rollmaster double
    That's not easier, that's harder. AFAIK it requires a machined oil pump cover at the very least. Also, at my power level, it's totally unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explicit_Spade View Post
    and let your tune adjust the timing?
    I'm talking about cam timing, not ignition timing...
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  7. #7 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    GrandPrix Junkie SgtMarshal's Avatar
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    a double roller is more work, because you also have to remove the balancer gear, and then you have more vibration.
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  8. #8 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtMarshal View Post
    based on the suggestion of overkill, I would get a stock timing chain set. I think the easiest way to verify you are getting the right timing chain would be to call the dealership and find out what part number they have for the stock chain set.
    Yes I am planning on using a stock timing set. But the question is, which one? I already have the part numbers for both, but I don't know which one (the L36 set or the L67 set) is timed at 0 degrees and which one is advanced/retarded.
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  9. #9 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    Turbo is the way to go. Fivefingerdeathpunch's Avatar
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    I would just re-use the stock chain because I don't care.

    S1x is still a mild cam, it'll be fine.

    SMGPFC Member #1
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  10. #10 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivefingerdeathpunch View Post
    I would just re-use the stock chain because I don't care.
    I will gladly reuse my stock L36 set if I could know for certain it was timed at 0 degrees. But if it is advanced or retarded, I don't want to use it, as it will throw off the cam timing from where it is recommended...
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  11. #11 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    Perma-Banned! JK LOL Explicit_Spade's Avatar
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    All of the cams made for this motor are designed to be run straight up. Most of them have around 4 degrees advance ground into the cam, so advancing them further, especially without checking piston to valve clearance, is not wise.
    Quote Originally Posted by W-Body Store
    Remember, GM engineers didn't take into account your need for speed.
    Daily Driver: 06 Grand Prix GT / 9.4:1 CR / IS3 Heads / Ported Gen V / ZZP Headers / HPT Pro / Pulleys: 4.25, 3.8, 3.5, 3.4, 3.2, 3.0, 2.9, 2.7
    Projects: 86 Monte Carlo SS / 98 Sonoma / 74 Honda CB750
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  12. #12 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    Yes exactly. Which is why I posted this thread, to figure out which stock timing set is "straight up" and which timing set is advanced. Again, the L36 and L67 timing sets are not identical. One is straight up and one is advanced. But nobody seems to know which is which?
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  13. #13 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    I ran a rollmaster double with my XP cam (which is slightly bigger than the S1X) set dot to dot, and it was fine.

    I didn't have to worry about which stock chain was advanced that way, and it held up to a lot of abuse. No, you don't NEED a double, but it is recommended for a 3800 with any valve spring upgrade.

    Yes you need a $55 machined oil pump cover and ZZP recommends a $10 thicker gasket, but it's worth it IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by W-Body Store
    Remember, GM engineers didn't take into account your need for speed.
    Daily Driver: 06 Grand Prix GT / 9.4:1 CR / IS3 Heads / Ported Gen V / ZZP Headers / HPT Pro / Pulleys: 4.25, 3.8, 3.5, 3.4, 3.2, 3.0, 2.9, 2.7
    Projects: 86 Monte Carlo SS / 98 Sonoma / 74 Honda CB750
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  14. #14 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    I assure you there is. It is about a 2 degrees difference. Even the ACDelco part numbers are different for the two engines. They didn't do that by accident.
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  15. #15 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    DUI BABY Bio248's Avatar
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    well, let's put it this way. the s1x was made for an L67. so even if the cam gear has 2 degrees of advance they KNEW THAT ALREADY and still designed the cam how it is.

    run the L67 timing set. don't worry about "zero" advance.
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  16. #16 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    Grocery Getter x2 goldgp's Avatar
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    What he said^^^^
    1998 GTP Mods: Getrag 5 speed ,balanced bottom end,ARP hardware,L32 rods,Federal pistons .20 over,XP Cammed,Double roller,130# springs,and 3.4 Gen V,SSC springs,GMPP sways, C5 calipers,12 inch brakes.2000 Grand Prix SE 3.8 Mods: GT dual exaust,plog,downpipe,Transgo Shift kit,1.9 yella terra rr,strut braces,gmpp kit.Both noob tuned with HP Tuner
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  17. #17 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    GTP Level Member 231FUN's Avatar
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    All you need to install is a new stock cloyes chain and damper,why change anything else if you're not going with a double roller?
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  18. #18 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    I'm not changing anything else, i just wasn't sure which cloyes part to order. But Bio248 makes a good point, the cam was designed for the L67 so the L67 part number is probably the best bet. I wish i had both sets so I can compare them to the JP set and see which one is actually straight up.
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  19. #19 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
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    lets think about this
    the cam was designed to run on a l67 si was ground using l67 cam timing
    that means that l67 stock chain and gears would place it at zero advance

    ooooooor since your insistant on having someone give u an awnser get a degree wheel kid and dial indicator and find out for yourself witch one get u the installed icl you want then you can do everyone a great service and find out most definitively witch chain and gear set has more or less advance in it
    my personal guess I neither are any different
    the s1x cam having advance built in to it is pretty damn normal most cam manufacurers grind in 2-4* od advance to help midrange and low end power anyways
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  20. #20 Re: Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67? 
    GrandPrix Junkie HighOctaneRacing's Avatar
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    Just call intense and ask them?

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
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